stadman Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Sample from Formlabs No sign of any support material etc so would guess it has been finished prior to leaving their works. Nicely detailed nonetheless, height about 2 inches. Kev S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It's a very similar spec to the B9 - not very surprising because they are both using the same Texas DLP chips. Knowing 3D systems it will probably be a very good product, easy to use and with good support but the materials will be £££. (this is about the 3d Systems printer mentioned a couple of posts up, not the Form1 in the previous post) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marbelup Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 The sample parts are often cleverly designed to not require support material/structures, so they look "perfect". That's why the Eiffel Tower is so popular as a sample print. Sample from Formlabs No sign of any support material etc so would guess it has been finished prior to leaving their works. Nicely detailed nonetheless, height about 2 inches. Kev S formsamp.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Higher resolution (or bigger prints) is on the way - http://newscenter.ti.com/2014-11-04-TI-DLP-high-resolution-chipsets-expand-3D-printing-3D-machine-vision-and-lithography-applications http://http://newscenter.ti.com/2014-11-04-TI-DLP-high-resolution-chipsets-expand-3D-printing-3D-machine-vision-and-lithography-applications Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Someone making US freight cars with a form 1 http://vasonabranch.blogspot.fr/2014/09/printing-freight-car-southern-pacific.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marbelup Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Thanks for that link, tebee. After reading his blog and doing some further research, I am convinced I don't want to buy a Form1. The "deal breaker" for me is that you can't print anything with "large" horizontal layers, as this is incompatible with the "peel" process, by which I mean the resin tank tilts down to release each newly-printed layer of resin prior to the print bed being raised ready for the next layer. Apparently having any layer with a "large" surface area is likely to result in the layer of cured resin sticking to the bottom of the tank rather than to the existing part of the model and/or support structure. Formlabs (and the referenced blog) suggest print parts with large flat surfaces at an angle of 10-20 degrees to the horizontal, to ensure than no layers present a "large" surface area. They don't define what "large" is but, clearly, you can't print something with a horizontal surface close to the full are of the print bed. The Form1 (and B9 Creator) use a resin tank with a transparent floor, and the laser (or other UV) light shines through from below to cure each later of resin. The part is built upside down and the built platform lifts the part out of the resin tank as the build progresses. The large commercial SLA printers (e.g. at i.Materialse for Prime Gray) built the part on the top surface of the resin (with laser from above) and the build platform moves down into the tank as the part is built. This obviously requires a much deeper resin tank which determines the maximum build height of the machine. Printing parts at an angle is going to make any layering effects more apparent on a finished model if most other features are either horizontal or vertical. The angled printing is apparent in the sample coach sides pictured above. With Prime Gray, it is possible to take advantage of the print orientation for flat parts like coach sides, to get a near-mirror finish on the surface which is the last to be printed, i.e. at the top. I have reached the conclusion that the Form1 is best suited to smaller parts and not suitable for printing complete models (at least not in my S scale) which would just about fill the print envelope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I too have been doing much research on various printers, spurred on by Shapeways price increases which made about 15% of the models I do unviable. The Form1 has one other problem when it comes to producing large flat objects. It's light source for curing the resin is a laser that is reflected off centrally placed rotating mirror. This is fine at the centre of the build area as the laser strikes it almost perpendicular, but as you get nearer the edges the angle becomes more acute, so the laser spot becomes elongated. This has two undesirable effects, firstly the resolution is reduced near the edges, but also because the energy from the laser is dissipated over a larger area, the resin here is less well cured that that at the centre. I suspect this is why the guy in the blog is having problems with the corner of his cars. This does not happen with the DLP based printers, but you still have the problem of unsticking it from the vat floor each time. Another problem is that curing the resin causes it to shirk slightly, which can set up tensions in thin walls and cause them to warp. One solution to the deep vat needed for top down production is to float the resin over salt water. I suspect there will be commercial cheap top down printers soon, but at the moment it's in the hands of the experimenters. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marbelup Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Thanks tebee. The additional issue you mentioned would not just affect large flat objects. It would affect any object which has any portion positioned towards the edges of the build platform. Formlabs actually suggest moving small objects around to different positions to even out the degradation of the bottom surface of the resin tank (which has to be replaced after approx. two litres of resin) so even a small object positioned off centre would print at lower quality compared to printing at the centre. The latest Form1+ printer has a more powerful laser but would also suffer from reduced resolution near the edges, even if the curing is satisfactory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think it's a case of Horses for Courses. 3d printing isn't (Yet) a one stop solution as I suggested to Pugsley at Taunton. Those that tried to do complete kits in white metal, etched brass or any other single material have not faired well yet the right combinations will no doubt work. Kev S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 One solution to the deep vat needed for top down production is to float the resin over salt water. I suspect there will be commercial cheap top down printers soon but at the moment it's in the hands of the experimenters. Here you go - http://www.peachyprinter.com/#!methods/cjg9 it was priced at about $100 via crowd sourcing. It may be OK for jewellery - small, no real accuracy, hand finishing required. Clever, 'though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Incidentally if you want to see some of the things other people are trying have a look at the Build Your Own SLA forums http://www.buildyourownsla.com/forum/index.php I may have to try experimenting myself... Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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