69843 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 'Evening everyone Having just been the 'Year of the A4', and knowing a good story or two were told over the course of the proceedings, I thought I'd place in my two cents worth. These (short) stories are interesting, as we nearly had the pleasure of an A4 'Down Under' twice. These are all word of mouth, but have been told to me by a few separate sources, all agreeing that the following nearly did happen, and I am trying to dig up any supporting information. First one: We all know that 6 A4s survive due to two having been presented to overseas museums, but how many people are aware that 4491/60012 'Commonwealth of Australia' was nearly the third? I have been told that British Railways offered the NSW Government/NSW Rail Transport Museum (varies depending on who is telling the story, I am trying to dig into this one) was offered 60012 at some point after she was withdrawn on the 20th August 1964. The story goes that we were offered the locomotive for nothing, but had to pay to have it shipped down here. Hence, the offer was knocked back, and the former Coronation engine was scrapped in March 1965. The second one is a bit shorter: For the Bicentennial celebrations of Australia in 1988, AusSteam '88 was organised. The group behind the idea successfully pulled together a range of locomotives for the event, but wanted something more. If an engine from England was able to be bought down to Australia, it would be an excellent link between the Mother Land and the Colony. The group initially inquired with the NRM about bringing Mallard out, due to it's status as the fastest steam locomotive in the world. Unfortunately, 1988 was Mallard's 50th, and that combined with the fact that it had the limited number of steamings, it was realised that this couldn't happen. The next engine enquired after was 46229 Duchess of Hamilton, but it was undergoing repairs and an overhaul. The NRM then suggested about Sir William McAlpine and 4472, and it was agreed that the engine would come out, 'provided it is a return ticket. It is interesting that not only were 4472 and 4073 both former stars of the same exhibition and having run on the same line during the 1925 trials, they were both either owned or previously owned by Sir William. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QRModeller Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Funny you should mention Comm of Aus nearly making it down under as I had a dream about that a few nights ago. I won't go into detail but it involved the tardis, forging of documents and a whole lot of messing with history! Matt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brunel Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 'Evening everyone Having just been the 'Year of the A4', and knowing a good story or two were told over the course of the proceedings, I thought I'd place in my two cents worth. These (short) stories are interesting, as we nearly had the pleasure of an A4 'Down Under' twice. These are all word of mouth, but have been told to me by a few separate sources, all agreeing that the following nearly did happen, and I am trying to dig up any supporting information. First one: We all know that 6 A4s survive due to two having been presented to overseas museums, but how many people are aware that 4491/60012 'Commonwealth of Australia' was nearly the third? Didn't 60014 Silver Link come very close to preservation? I've heard that she was offered for sale at the attractive price of £3,000, but was eventually scrapped when no takers came forward. Similar events occurred, I think, with some of the last surviving A4s (60024 Kingfisher, for one) - it's always quite frustrating to know how many engines 'got away', isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted March 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2014 We also could have had "City of London 46245 and City of Nottingham 46251" if it had not been for the shortsightedness of the respective authorities ......what a bl000dy waste. Rgds.......Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Yup, 2509 was offered to Butlins but could not agree on the price. I believe attempts were made to preserve St. Mungo, but the failure to obtain said A1 led to the purchase of 60532.. I also read somewhere that Pegler would have also liked 2750. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 'Evening everyone Having just been the 'Year of the A4', and knowing a good story or two were told over the course of the proceedings, I thought I'd place in my two cents worth. First one: We all know that 6 A4s survive due to two having been presented to overseas museums, but how many people are aware that 4491/60012 'Commonwealth of Australia' was nearly the third? I have been told that British Railways offered the NSW Government/NSW Rail Transport Museum (varies depending on who is telling the story, I am trying to dig into this one) was offered 60012 at some point after she was withdrawn on the 20th August 1964. The story goes that we were offered the locomotive for nothing, but had to pay to have it shipped down here. Hence, the offer was knocked back, and the former Coronation engine was scrapped in March 1965. Now if you had swapped the name plates for 60026 Miles Beaver and put that name down on the export ticket customs might have thought it was a real person. Poms could get to Australia for a tenner back then all you needed to do was swap the name plates back when it got there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 A pity 60012 never made it into preservation as she was always regarded as a 'good un', not to forget Seagull - perhaps the best of all the A4's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 We also could have had "City of London 46245 and City of Nottingham 46251" if it had not been for the shortsightedness of the respective authorities ......what a bl000dy waste. Rgds.......Mike Likewise 6254 'City of Stoke on Trent', although the local council do have the nameplates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted March 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2014 Didn't 60014 Silver Link come very close to preservation? I've heard that she was offered for sale at the attractive price of £3,000, but was eventually scrapped when no takers came forward. Similar events occurred, I think, with some of the last surviving A4s (60024 Kingfisher, for one) - it's always quite frustrating to know how many engines 'got away', isn't it? Bearing in mind when silver link was for sale £3000 was an awful lot of money!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Moss Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 It was. My grandad told me they paid round £7k for their 4 bedroom house in about 1964 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted March 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2014 Another problem way back was not only price but somewhere to keep the things. Stories abound of 'We could have had xxxxx if only we had somewhere to put it' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Having made a few inquiries, and a few chance purchases, I can add a bit more to the CoA story, quoting from the 50th Anniversary (September 2012) Roundhouse magazine of the RTM: "The NSWRTM was offered the chance to bring LNER A4 Pacific Locomotive Commonwealth of Australia to reside permanently here. The price set by British Railways, (plus transport costs) were considered to be excessive and the plan was dropped. BR was informed of the decision." According to the current (May 2014) issue, which features a bit on "The exhibit that almost was", the Australian Railway Historical Society was also involved in this. It is thought that it may have been looked at in connection with getting it here for"British Week" (25th September to 10th October 1964), but information from the period (1964) is severely lacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Streak Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 What an absolute Travesty that she never got here, at least BR thought about it enough to make the offer. That's terribly sad. Can you have a favourite engine, when you never actually saw it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 What an absolute Travesty that she never got here, at least BR thought about it enough to make the offer. That's terribly sad. Can you have a favourite engine, when you never actually saw it? How else do I love a P2?! It is a shame, as it would have shown the differences between local Pacific design with the C38s, and how engines were designed to suit their own individual climates. As mentioned in the article in the May Roundhouse, it would have been fantastic to see at least 7 (if not more...) A4s all together in the one place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Streak Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I have a question regarding COA, or more so regarding it's corridor tender. On all the early pictures in it's LNER livery and in fact on my Hornby Version. The LNER letters are more positioned to the front on the left hand side, rather than central on the RHS. Why is that the case ? I thought it may be something to do with the lettering being stainless steel rather than painted, possibly any retaining hardware poking through into a crucial area. Any Ideas ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 I have to say, that one I do not know. There may be information on it here (under Chime, Archives, Names and Numbers): http://www.sirnigelgresley.com/frame.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Streak Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Cheers for that link. Haven't yet found an answer regarding the tender letters, but found a lot of other great info. Which should prevent me from asking too many other daft questions. To be honest I hadn't even noticed the difference in lettering until my neighbour picked it up, thinking that it might be a tampo error on the model, good thing is now he wants to know more about Gresley's Pacific's. So Another convert. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60012 Commonwealth of Australia Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Funny you should mention Comm of Aus nearly making it down under as I had a dream about that a few nights ago. I won't go into detail but it involved the tardis, forging of documents and a whole lot of messing with history! Matt. Something tells me even the Doctor would have some difficulty explaining that Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60012 Commonwealth of Australia Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Hi, Just come across this thread. Something maybe some of the New Build loco companies should think of - the ARHS and Steamrail would have a field day with 60012! Only if it was painted in BR Express Blue early emblem though!!! Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Given the stresses and strains 4472 is believed to have suffered running on the somewhat undulating Aussie trackwork. The source where I read this (that I cannot recall at present) argued that this period of operation potentially contributed to the major elements chassis surgery she has just undergone over the past decade. Maybe it is just as well Mallard wasn't sent. While 4472 likely had new frames, and certainly new frame sections, during its working life, Mallard I believe has the original metal from 1938. (Also a good case for limiting Mallard's operation should she ever be restored... but I digress). Back on topic, a great shame that the 60012 and indeed the other Commonwealth locos were not donated (incl shipping) to their respective countries. That would have been an offer too good to refuse. 60012 would have made a fantastic exhibit in one of the major Australian collections. Like the USA and Canada, Australia is a nation with a critical mass of nutters who appreciate good railway engineering! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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