darren01 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi Just got the spring 2014 brochure from Hatton's and just seen the price for the 05 shunter £100.00 !. For a small loco as this is, Do you think the price is a little steep?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted March 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2014 Makes the Garratt look to be a real bargain!! Rgds...............Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Well they have to recoup the loss they made with a certain other model. Coat on and running for the door. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi Just got the spring 2014 brochure from Hatton's and just seen the price for the 05 shunter £100.00 !. For a small loco as this is, Do you think the price is a little steep?. Everybody seems to comment on size v price. It really makes no difference on the size, there are the same R&D costs, same production costs (though dependant upon number of detailed operations for assembly), and very similar material costs, whatever the size of loco. No I don't think it is excessive. We've been paying far below the correct price for years. Been spoilt rotten. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi Sorry i do not agree about this, how come Bachmann brought to market a brand new 03 for half the price?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted March 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2014 Comparing it with older releases isn't a fair comparison, research and tooling costs were at a lower rate and unless there has been a recent production run we're comparing historic manufacturing costs. The class 03s and 04s available for pre-order on Hattons site are £60 from tooling that's already covered it's costs. Bachmann tend to price their models at a slightly lower level than their competitors, just speculation but that might be because Kader own the production facility. The price is in line with other recent / forthcoming releases. £94 for an AC Cars Railbus at Hattons or a pre-order price of £101 for a Hornby J15, probably the nearest upcoming new steam equivalent. I'm waiting for Heljan's Manning Wardle 2-6-2T in 009, that's probably going to make your eyes water in comparison. If it's too expensive, nobody's making you buy one. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Comparing it with older releases isn't a fair comparison, research and tooling costs were at a lower rate and unless there has been a recent production run we're comparing historic manufacturing costs. The class 03s and 04s available for pre-order on Hattons site are £60 from tooling that's already covered it's costs. Bachmann tend to price their models at a slightly lower level than their competitors, just speculation but that might be because Kader own the production facility. The big difference is Bachmann works to larger production batches than Heljan and makes tooling appropriately. Heljan's tooling is "soft" with a considerably more limited lifespan - it's cheaper to produce, but needs to replaced a lot more frequently so a greater relative cost needs to be recouped on each production run. This is what has made it viable for Heljan to tool up Falcon et al for a relatively small set of batches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Country Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Heljan tends to focus on more niche diesels, and the limited lifespan and geographical range of the 05s put them very much in the niche category, with fairly limited sales potential and a price to reflect that. The 03 was a much more widespread prototype, so Bachmann can be confident of volume sales at £50-60 a time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi Just got the spring 2014 brochure from Hatton's and just seen the price for the 05 shunter £100.00 !. For a small loco as this is, Do you think the price is a little steep?. It sounds a lot compared to the Hornby Sentinel, but it is considerably bigger! Smaller batches mean that Heljan prices are generally higher than most for models from new tooling but prices from all the manufacturers are moving steadily upwards. Give it another year or two and I reckon there'll be precious little to be had below that price level! If production follows the pattern set by the Type 1 diesels, they'll only be making 750 of each so I doubt they'll hang around too long. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 If you compare prices, the Bachmann MLV, 2-EPB and 4-CEP are interesting to compare price wise. The price per coach rockets as the number of coaches reduces. However in real terms, what you spend on a RTR model is nothing to the outlay in time etc on the other aspects of the hobby. The person it really effects is the collector, who maybe never actually runs their models (heresy I hear people saying). You just have to ask yourself the question. Do I want that model? Yes or no. Do I want to pay the asking price? Yes or no. Simple questions, just don't gripe if you don't like the answer. To me the big problem is the impulse buy. I did not get a Brighton Belle when they came out because I could not get the set of 5 coaches when I thought about buying one. In hindsight a 5-BEL is OK if you model the Brighton main line and can justify the odd special on other third rail layouts. The 2-BIL and forthcoming 2-HAL are the bread and butter of railway passenger operations. With a couple of units a realistic service can be operated. So I look out for bargain 2 cars (2-EPB included) My big moan is the availability of spare parts. With all the current horror stories it would be nice to squirrel away some spare gears etc for the day when they need replacement. Just climbing down from my soap box..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Heljan tends to focus on more niche diesels, and the limited lifespan and geographical range of the 05s put them very much in the niche category, with fairly limited sales potential and a price to reflect that. The 03 was a much more widespread prototype, so Bachmann can be confident of volume sales at £50-60 a time. 05's weren't quite as geographically limited as all that. The later version Heljan is doing could be found on the Sc, NER and LM regions. If they ever do the early version you can include the GE and W Regions as well. Time scale wise they are a little limited, but quite a few lasted in industrial use until the mid 80's. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Most interesting to me is that they're doing 2503 as "Cider Queen", an industrial loco. Perhaps following Hornby's Sentinel successes, this is the start of others catering for industrials? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dickerson Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 We've already seen industrial liveries for both their Class 14 and 17; as it looks to have had a chimney exhaust fitted maybe it will be a step in the right direction, and short of the early version being produced, is the most likely for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 stewartingram, on 11 Mar 2014 - 08:51, said: Everybody seems to comment on size v price. It really makes no difference on the size, there are the same R&D costs, same production costs (though dependant upon number of detailed operations for assembly), and very similar material costs, whatever the size of loco. No I don't think it is excessive. We've been paying far below the correct price for years. Been spoilt rotten. Stewart HiYes but when models start going over £150+ for a small shunter in a few years time how many of use will moan that they are to expansive?, and please lets not compare European model price to UK as we all know these are at eye watering price's. "If production follows the pattern set by the Type 1 diesels, they'll only be making 750 of each so I doubt they'll hang around too long." Yes they will sell them as people want them, and as long as people buy them at high prices they will look at this and say "well we sold out at that price how about this price for the next one's". So how long can they keep doing this till we, the buyer say "NO"?, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Hornby are charging £93.49 rep for the Network Rail yellow 08 this year and that tooling is several years old so the Price's are not that far off and if the model is good like the 08 then it should be worth the money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Most interesting to me is that they're doing 2503 as "Cider Queen", an industrial loco. Perhaps following Hornby's Sentinel successes, this is the start of others catering for industrials?The "Cider Queen" version is going to look good. The D2578 Loco Group still has all the original fittings like chimney, name and number plates in their possession so accurate measurements and photos of these have been supplied to Heljan so it should be right. (As long as the Chinese can do their bit right). I have been involved with the colour layouts for these models and they are all just about complete and do look good. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spackz Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 The 05s are due in January according to Hattons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Just seen this from Kernow , the 05 now comes in at £109.99!, full RRP £129.99, that's a lot for a very small shunter. Just to add this, 3900 Heljan Tango O2 Steam Locomotive number 3965 £156.99 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 12, 2014 Just seen this from Kernow , the 05 now comes in at £109.99!, full RRP £129.99, that's a lot for a very small shunter. Just to add this, 3900 Heljan Tango O2 Steam Locomotive number 3965 £156.99 Your point is? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Here we go again! SIZE of loco does NOT generally make a difference to price. Research & Deveopment costs = same. Tooling = same Assembly costs = same Packing = same Transportation = same Advertising = same etc etc (*same is defined as near enough the same, any difference being marginal). What WILL make a difference to final price is [1] the amount of detail included & [2] HOW it is included (ie many separate parts requiring assembly, or the Design Clever approach). Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted May 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 12, 2014 Just seen this from Kernow , the 05 now comes in at £109.99!, full RRP £129.99, that's a lot for a very small shunter. Just to add this, 3900 Heljan Tango O2 Steam Locomotive number 3965 £156.99 As I said earlier in the thread, the L&B 2-6-2 would to make your eyes water when we knew the price. Kernow's price is £159.99, list price £189.99 - a fraction the size of the Tango (but it's got the same number of wheels excluding the tender!) I'm still going to get (at least) one as nobody else will make one, but I (or morspecifically SWMBO) could still say no... Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi Sorry i do not agree about this, how come Bachmann brought to market a brand new 03 for half the price?. Leaving aside the fact that it was produced before the latest round of inflation in the Chinese model producing industry, it is entirely possible (if you read the Bachmann pricing thread) that Bachmann made a loss on the 03 (or at least, insufficient profit). It's funny how whenever there is a difference in pricing, the lower price is always perceived as the 'correct' one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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