rob D2 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Hi, I'm trying to find good examples of the above to renumber a Hornby example. Having perused brian daniels fotopic, I've got 115,118,210,319, 304 all in the London, oxford areas in these times with ploughs but can anyone tell me which were WR based. Also I saw a photo in MR years ago , in an article about snow ploughs of 313** at old oak with red ploughs and a steam pipe for unblocking points....anybody have a photo! know which one it was ? Thanks for any help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Glad you found my website useful. 118, 210 and 304 were Western ones out of that lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 I always find it useful brian ! Thanks that's good gen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 ...a steam lance was a temporary attachment to the steam heating pipe on the bufferbeam...used to de-ice points etc...I've seen a couple of pics (probably not 31s) and will try to unearth them again. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 ...31294 BR had ploughs during some of the time period mentioned too. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2014 Class 47s were better for steam lancing - the boiler water lasted longer than on a class 31. Mind you even then on New Year's Eve 1978/79 we had to go back on shed for boiler water at one point as I had steam lances going on both ends of the loco - a fixed lance arrangement at one end and an ordinary lance on a flexible pipe at the other. Only problem was a lot of the points were re-freezing as fast as I cleared the *!!*%* things, must have got through the best part of a ton of salt as well that night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 So they loco went out as a thunderbird on its own ? Could it still pull freight with the lances in position ? Thinking about the flexibility if I was to add a representation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 ...the lance(s) would not be fitted whilst the loco was in general traffic Rob as they were hand held/operated and their use would require the presence of e.g. a p way supervisor/person trained in their operation. The loco would be stationary (simply a steam supply) whilst the lance was in use. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 9, 2014 ...the lance(s) would not be fitted whilst the loco was in general traffic Rob as they were hand held/operated and their use would require the presence of e.g. a p way supervisor/person trained in their operation. The loco would be stationary (simply a steam supply) whilst the lance was in use. Dave Agree, and even with the fixed lance in position it could still not be used for traffic as it was across the buffer stocks. Definitely no go with a flexible lance with several feet of armoured rubber tube between steam pipe and the metal part of the lance. Fascinating things to use but needed to be handled with care using the leather gauntlets provided for the task. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Rob, have a look on Flickr, search for 'steam lance' there is a photo of another WR loco 31273 at work at Ruscombe in December 1981, it is also complete with mini ploughs. There is also a Flickr group 'Class 31s with mini ploughs' group. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Good call. River cider ! That's a great photo of 273, that can be an option as there's also one of it at swindon , must be a WR machine. There's also a pic of 222 at Liverpool with the steam lance pipe under the buffer beam but in pax service Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2014 Good call. River cider ! That's a great photo of 273, that can be an option as there's also one of it at swindon , must be a WR machine. There's also a pic of 222 at Liverpool with the steam lance pipe under the buffer beam but in pax service 222 looks as if it might be fitted with some sort of fixed lance but interestingly it also has footsteps which suggests it was fitted in place of the normal footsteps and was thus well out of the way (unlike some types of fixed lance). It clearly has what looks like a steam pipe connection near the end of the loco's steamheat flexible pipe although it obviously isn't connected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 31 273 still had it's ploughs on into 1984 at Old Oak, it was a right Royal pain in the 'aris hooking on and off the empty stock jobs to Paddington. I have a shot of 117 with ploughs on at Reading but am unsure of the date, I suspect though it may be 1984 / 85-ish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2014 31 273 still had it's ploughs on into 1984 at Old Oak, it was a right Royal pain in the 'aris hooking on and off the empty stock jobs to Paddington. I have a shot of 117 with ploughs on at Reading but am unsure of the date, I suspect though it may be 1984 / 85-ish. Anything with miniature ploughs on was a right Royal pain or worse getting in between to couple or hook off, especially if that blasted centre section was fitted - hence a number of locos ran round with that bit missing, thank goodness, but I can't remember if 273 had qualified for that treatment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Was there many 31/0s at OOC in this period ? Or was it more /4s ? Did the Bristol based /0s spread there wings much or just round the city ? I'm sure those ploughs were a pain, but I think they make the 31s look pretty ....ish.... Can you imagine a TOC today using a loco for point de icing ? Shareholders would go nuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2014 Was there many 31/0s at OOC in this period ? Or was it more /4s ? Did the Bristol based /0s spread there wings much or just round the city ? I'm sure those ploughs were a pain, but I think they make the 31s look pretty ....ish.... Can you imagine a TOC today using a loco for point de icing ? Shareholders would go nuts There were a few non ETH Class 31s there - easily distinguished by the lack of the grey bodyside strip which was painted on the ETH locos. And if I was still in the loco hire market I would absolutely love NR hiring them for snow ploughing or other work and no doubt the shareholders would be too at the prices I used to charge (alas no boilers on my fleet so no good for steam lancing and Tom Clift's experiment of an 'air lance' running off the Main reservoir Pipe was unsuccessful, wrong kind of snow in Britain for that to work). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Was there many 31/0s at OOC in this period ? Or was it more /4s ? Did the Bristol based /0s spread there wings much or just round the city ? I'm sure those ploughs were a pain, but I think they make the 31s look pretty ....ish.... Can you imagine a TOC today using a loco for point de icing ? Shareholders would go nuts For example here is the allocation for summer 1983 Bath Road 31158, 31210, 31230, 31231, 31258, 31259, 31286 There were no 31/4s at Bath Road by then, once Eastleigh 33s took over the Portsmouth Harbour workings they were sent away, mostly to March. Old Oak 31117, 31121, 31135, 31260, 31273, 31304, The Old Oak 31/4s had also gone to the Eastern Region by then. The Bath Road 31s worked local freight trips in the Bristol and Avonmouth area. They were also used on engineers trains including midweek ballast drops working out from Bristol East Depot, a typical ballast drop would be 10 dogfish and a shark plough van and might go to Westbury or Taunton and back. Bath Road 31s also worked local trips or engineers out of Gloucester, and they were booked to work in the Exeter area from 1980 after Laira lost its class 25s They also worked Premium Parcels trains on the London - Bristol route One service left Temple Meads at 14.15 for Paddington, the load was 3 GUVs. I think the Old Oak 31s would also be employed on local freight work, I photoed them on the Didcot - Bicester MOD trip and also engineers trips out of Reading West Junction Yard, cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Our 31s at Old Oak were used on the ECS jobs to Paddington and back as usual and on the daily freight trips which took in Acton Yard, Park Royal, Southall, Hayes and occasionally out to Reading, Didcor and Swindon. They were also used on the Chinnor cement job and various parcels workings in the London Division. As Kevin says the 31/4s were transferred away, but they still showed up from time to time, and were sometimes pilfered for local jobs or on the odd occassion substituted for 47s and 50s on the Padd - Birminghams. 414 had a habit of catching fire so we were gald to get rid of it! Correction is due to my earlier post regarding 117 with ploughs on - it was actually it's skinhead 'twin' 121 I was referring to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Some good gen guys thanks, I'm surprised the 31/4s went as I would have thought part of their role was pre heating the stock ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 It was, but by the end of '83 and into '84 we were getting a lot more newly converted 47/4s on our patch which worked ECS into Padd before working their own trains etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Interesting, I wish I'd gone round OOC in those days , but being 11 at the height of my spotting days (83) , it was only trips to reading and maidenhead with my dad, I remember being taken to euston and st pancras once....it was like some alien planet.... Anyway I digress .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnw1 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 31210 in April 1977 https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/6095253549/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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