R6615 27 ton tippler "Ingotmould" (Stewart & Lloyds)

[locoholic]

Another question for the RMweb infinite knowledge resource. I'm assuming that R6615 is a model of a real prototype... If that's the case, does anyone know when the wagons were used, what they carried and on which routes they were seen?

[Arthur]

They carried, obviously, ingot moulds for use in the steel industry. They would have been used between the iron foundries which made them and the steelworks which used them. Examples of the former were Landore and Ifor works, both in South Wales and Distington in Cumbria. The steelworks, well there were plenty, South Wales, Teesside, Scunthorpe, Glasgow/Motherwell all had several works, the Black Country, Shotton, Corby, Irlam, Stoke etc.

 

Stewarts & Lloyds had several works, Corby, Bilston and a couple in Scotland. All used ingot moulds, not sure which of these works these wagons served.

 

RT Models make resin ingot moulds, there's more info in this thread where I describe finishing some for the BCB project.

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57246-black-country-blues-rolling-stock-workbench/?p=1164245

Edited April 17, 2014 by Arthur

[black and decker boy]

Paul Barletts photo site has lots of mineral wagons converted for such use, I've only really searched the 16T threads but many of those were fitted with cradles so no doubt he will have similar photos of the ex-27T tipplers

[rope runner]

At least these tipplers will have a decent underframe, unlike the Bachmann offering.

 

 

 

Also, on a separate note which may be of interest to many viewing this topic, I believe the forthcoming Bachmann Lancashire Steel Manufacturing 27ton tipplers to be incorrect. All the photos I have of these vehicles show them to be of the 26ton variety, with roller bearings. Perhaps this is just an “easy win” for Bachmann and those who aren’t too picky with their stock?

 

 

 

Paul A.

 

[Fat Controller]

Paul Barletts photo site has lots of mineral wagons converted for such use, I've only really searched the 16T threads but many of those were fitted with cradles so no doubt he will have similar photos of the ex-27T tipplers

The 16-tonners were for short-term coil movements within South Wales; the 27t tipplers worked from iron-foundries to steel works, originally returning with broken moulds, though this stopped after large holes were cut in the side , ostensibly to help loading.

[Arthur]

 

Also, on a separate note which may be of interest to many viewing this topic, I believe the forthcoming Bachmann Lancashire Steel Manufacturing 27ton tipplers to be incorrect. All the photos I have of these vehicles show them to be of the 26ton variety, with roller bearings. Perhaps this is just an “easy win” for Bachmann and those who aren’t too picky with their stock?

 

Paul A. [/size]

I believe that you are correct there Paul, they were the 26t variety with roller bearings and were they vac. fitted too?

 

Photographs of them seem quite rare. Here's one;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnneave/3962190245/

[br2975]

At least these tipplers will have a decent underframe, unlike the Bachmann offering.

 

Not quite, some are bound to criticise the model because...........

(Not me, I've got more than I need for my layout, and they are OK for my purposes !)

.

The Hornby model appears to be B384378 and has fabricated axleboxes.

.

The prototype was built to Dia. 183 and had a  9'0"  wheelbase.

 

By the time it was in Ingot Mould use, this wagon had been fitted with roller bearings.

.

In fact I have a list of 21 Ingot Mould wagons on the desk in front of me, and all were fitted with roller bearings.

.

Of that list of  21 wagons, it appears that all those to Dia 183 and 9'0" w.b. were fittedwith 'spindle' buffers, whilst those to Dia. 183 with 10'0" w.b. were fitted with Oleo buffers - save (DB)387976 which appeared to have self contained buffers, and two built to Dia. 184 with 10'0" w.b. were fitted with self contained buffers.

.

The Iron Ore tipplers used for coil traffic had had their bodies cut down circa 1968 , and were fitted with longitudinal cradles and became Coil J, later KJO and SJO. These wagons survived in South Wales until the late 1980s

 

They had superceded two earlier conversions of sixteen ton mineral wagons, (i)  a  batch of Dia.117  fitted sixteen tonners (allocated Dia. 409 on conversion in about 1962)  that were for 'pickled coil traffic' based at the Abbey Works, Port Talbot and which returned to mineral use in the late 60s. and (ii)  unfitted sixteen tonners of a variety of diagrams - fitted with cradles and which outlasted the converted fitted wagons. These wagons were used on  RTB (Richard Thomas & Baldwins) coil traffic in South Wales and in turn were superseded by the Coil J conversions of Iron Ore tipplers mentioned above. 

.

The loading of the mineral wagons with coils ( and Ingot Mould wagons ) was dangerous for the men inside the wagon when the coils (or moulds) were being loaded and unloaded, and led to the cutting down of the tipplers mentioned above, and the cutting of holes in the sides of some Ingot Mould wagons. 

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Photos of all the conversions mentioned above can be found on Paul Bartletts invaluable site.

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An article by Keith Allen appeared in the January 1983 R.M. featuring the coil conversions,

.

As for the areas where you would see Ingot Mould wagons................ most (but not all) places where there may be a steel works.

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They could be seen here in South Wales conveying worn out moulds to the BSC Ifor Works at Dowlais where they would be broken up, and re-cast into new moulds. 

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At Dowlais they would either break the moulds using a large 'Butters' crane which dropped an iron ball from a height onto the old moulds, or stand the moulds in a pit, put dynamite into the moulds, then fill the pit with water and ignite the dynamite ........

.

Worn out ingot moulds en-route to Dowlais (carried on Plate wagons, but tipplers also feature) can be seen here:-

http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/radyrtocaeharris.htm

 

Breaking up the old moulds and an idea of their size, can be found here:-

http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/dowlaisworks_butters_crane.htm

 

Brian R

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Edited April 17, 2014 by br2975

[rope runner]

I believe that you are correct there Paul, they were the 26t variety with roller bearings and were they vac. fitted too?

 

Photographs of them seem quite rare. Here's one;

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnneave/3962190245/

 

Yes, I believe so - that photo is new to me, so thanks for the link

 

Not quite, some are bound to criticise the model because...........

(Not me, I've got more than I need for my layout, and they are OK for my purposes !)

.

The Hornby model appears to be B384378 and has fabricated axleboxes.

.

The prototype was built to Dia. 183 and had a  9'0"  wheelbase.

 

By the time it was in Ingot Mould use, this wagon had been fitted with roller bearings.

.

 

You are ofcourse, correct!

 

There is a  useful "how to" on the BCB area of the forum where the Hornby offering has had these fitted, filing off the fabricated versions and fitting a white metal alternative for anyone who feels so inclined

 

Paul A.

Edited April 18, 2014 by 1whitemoor

[class37418stag]

Ingot mould mean waste hot steel to throw to dump site or transferred what

[Arthur]

Hi Andrew,

 

At the steelworks steel is made in liquid form. It was then poured into these ingot moulds which stood on a special internal user wagon called an ingot car. The steel was then allowed to cool and go solid before the mould was pulled off. The ingot was then ready for reheating and rolling.

 

The moulds could be used several times before they were scrapped. You could see new ones being delivered to the works, and old ones being taken away for scrapping, and that is what these wagons were used for.

 

If you follow this link you will find some photographs and more information.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57246-black-country-blues-rolling-stock-workbench/?p=1164245

Edited November 18, 2014 by Arthur

[hmrspaul]

I have a photo collection of ingot mould ex IOT . The wonders of Windows 8 won't permit me to copy an URL, but simply searching for ingotmould will find it - the address for my site is below.

 

Paul

PS I suspect the one which is in internal use and has plain oil axleboxes received those boxes on condemnation - BR wanted roller bearing back.

[class37418stag]

I have a photo collection of ingot mould ex IOT . The wonders of Windows 8 won't permit me to copy an URL, but simply searching for ingotmould will find it - the address for my site is below.

 

Paul

PS I suspect the one which is in internal use and has plain oil axleboxes received those boxes on condemnation - BR wanted roller bearing back.

I has seen photo of ingot mould wagon at Newark but no steelwork in Newark

[Fat Controller]

I has seen photo of ingot mould wagon at Newark but no steelwork in Newark

Going to Scunthorpe, perhaps? The ingot moulds were made at a few locations in the UK; Landore and Dowlais in South Wales and Workington in Cumbria are the ones I know about. They were then sent by rail, by wagon-load services, to steel-making plants throughout the UK and to ports for export (Landore did moulds for Italsider, near Naples, and an Irish plant in Cork Harbour)

[class37418stag]

If I brought some wagon to need fill inside by what kind?

[Fat Controller]

If I brought some wagon to need fill inside by what kind?

The wagons generally had a layer of ballast on top of the floor. This meant the ingot moulds didn't slide on the steel floor. The moulds themselves are available from RT Models:-

http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_038.htm

Each wagon would carry perhaps a couple of smaller moulds or one large one.

[APOLLO]

R6615 now £4.99 in Hornbys Black Friday sale - be quick

 

http://www.Hornby.com/shop/black-friday-sale/stewarts-lloyds-27-ton-tippler-wagon.html

 

Brit15

[Arthur]

 

Andrew,

 

Here are some of RT Models ingot moulds, which Brian linked to, painted with Humbrol Polished Steel Metalcote. Like this, they would just sit on some old ballast in the wagon.

 

[G-BOAF]

Sorry for brining up this old thread, but its the only relavent Tippler thread in this section without starting a new one.

I've just got my paws on a Hornby Tippler, and what a fantastic model these are! The chassis moulding contains reprasentations of the buffer springs behond the buffer beams, totally invisible unless the model is tipped up! Useless detail (unless you are modelling it tipped!) but quite fantastic.

Has such detail been modelled on any other vehicle?

[rope runner]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

I've just got my paws on a Hornby Tippler, and what a fantastic model these are!

 

The chassis is excellent, agreed. Unfortunately the body is neither the correct height for the high-bodied or later lower-bodied versions. The reinforcing fillets under the top capping should also be triangular but are curiously squared off. 

 

One path to "perfect" tipplers is to use the Bachmann tippler body on the Hornby chassis to give an earlier build diagram 27T, Parkside body on the Hornby chassis for the later 27T build diagram and the Parkside kit in its entirety to replicate the various sub-classes of 26T. 

 

Paul A. 

[G-BOAF]

4 hours ago, 1whitemoor said:

 

The chassis is excellent, agreed. Unfortunately the body is neither the correct height for the high-bodied or later lower-bodied versions. The reinforcing fillets under the top capping should also be triangular but are curiously squared off. 

 

One path to "perfect" tipplers is to use the Bachmann tippler body on the Hornby chassis to give an earlier build diagram 27T, Parkside body on the Hornby chassis for the later 27T build diagram and the Parkside kit in its entirety to replicate the various sub-classes of 26T. 

 

Paul A. 

Wait, so I've wasted £8 on a sub-par model in terms of dimensions?

I tried to find an online review before ordering... oh well

[Fireline]

6 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Wait, so I've wasted £8 on a sub-par model in terms of dimensions?

I tried to find an online review before ordering... oh well

 

Would you have noticed if no-one had said anything? I suspect not. £8 for a wagon still sounds like a bargain in this day and age.

[rope runner]

18 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Wait, so I've wasted £8 on a sub-par model in terms of dimensions?

I tried to find an online review before ordering... oh well

Not a criticism of your purchase at all, enjoy your model!

I acquired several of these when they were heavily discounted and they can be easily improved and adapted for those with the inclination/time. There was a section of a thread somewhere on here about adding roller bearings to them which "ingot mould" branded wagons were (mostly, I imagine) fitted with. 

 

Paul A. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by 1whitemoor

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, 1whitemoor said:

Not a criticism of your purchase at all, enjoy your model!

I acquired several of these when they were heavily discounted and they can be easily improved and adapted for those with the inclination/time. There was a section of a thread somewhere on here about adding roller bearings to them which "ingot mould" branded wagons were (mostly, I imagine) fitted with. 

 

Paul A. 

In later years the vast majority of IOTs had roller bearings - BR wanted all of the higher payload wagons to have RB. And certainly all of the conversions to Ingot Moulds I photographed had RB (with the exception of one in internal use - BR also expected RBs to be returned to them when wagons were scrapped, so perhaps the same was true for wagons sold on for other uses.) https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ingotmould

 

Paul

[Clagsniffer]

What would be involved to make these into ZKV ‘Barbel’ wagons?

[Mark Saunders]

2 minutes ago, Clagsniffer said:

What would be involved to make these into ZKV ‘Barbel’ wagons?

 

Forget it the Parkside kit is the only way forward to a Barbel.