Speedlink Survivors

[dvdlcs]

Hello.

Reading a recent post from Alex Ford on the Yahoo! railfreight group, I see that another batch of the Speedlink / ABN stock has been broken up, this time at C F Booth in Rotherham.

This got me to wondering...

Does anyone know (roughly) how many of these vehicles(*) still exist, and what sort of numbers are still in active use?

(*) I'm referring to the 2 axle vehicles with the TOPS O[ABCDET]A, S[AP]A, and V[ABCDEF]A codes. I'm assuming that most of the later VGA build are still in use, albeit with upgraded suspension and VKA coding. I am aware some of these TOPS codes relate to conversions rather than original build. I'm including any Z-coded vehicles from these series too.

Does anyone other than DB Schenker still use them on the national network?


I realise that some of these vehicles may have ended up on preserved railways / heritage lines, principally as working vehicles. I wonder if anyone has given thought to preserving any of these vehicles in their own right.

Will we ever see a demonstration freight train in Grey and Flame Red?

Thanking anyone in advance for any forthcoming responses.


David.

[pharrc20]

I saw a rake of 17 OBAs with mesh-sides parked up in the sidings at Peak Forest on Good Friday so these at least are being on used on concrete block traffic from Cemex at Dove Holes.

 

I did a proposal for an air-braked wagon preservation project some years ago but there seemed to be a lot of resistance to such an idea but ex-BR wagon types are being scrapped all the time and soon there will be no chance of saving any of these designs. Instead of buying yet another 37 or 47 why not buy ten wagons for the same price and do them up to represent the Speedlink era cos once they gone they've gone.....

 

Cheers Paul

[pharrc20]

Just to add to my previous comments there are a few air-braked wagons on heritage railways around the UK but not a large collection and most like TTA tanks and Vxx vans are used for fuel/water and spares storage and others for engineers use. There are few ex Private Owner air-braked vehicles on heritage lines ones I can think of are the PCAs that went from Eastgate cement works to the Weardale Railway. There may be more now I would have to check the heritage railway wagon stock books to be sure.

 

But to recreate a sample of the Speedlink era with a mix of BR and PO air-braked wagons is becoming more difficult as the days pass by and it would have to take a lot of time and money and committment to buying and restoring a selection of typical wagons that could be used by all those diesels in blue and railfreight liveries up and down the country.

 

Cheers Paul

[Talltim]

There's a Vsomething at the NRM. I only saw it end on, it's one of the ones with bracing on the end

edit: possibly a VIX ferry van

[AngryMeerkat]

I would imagine that the main thing going against preserving wagons (of any type) is how do they pay for themselves?

 

Preserve a loco and it will earn some of its costs pulling paying passengers. Same goes for coaches, if they carry humans they will earn a living to some extent.

 

Who would pay to watch some wagons roll past? I certainly wouldn't, there is no value there. If these wagons can't earn any money, how is the restoration and upkeep paid for?

 

Mark

[Rivercider]

I would consider it unlikely for a rake of 10 airbraked vehicles to be preserved in one place.

However, I could see the justification one or two OBA/Bass wagons, for use conveying sleepers/materials

or a couple of VAA/VBA/VCA/VDA for use as vehicles for diesel stores which could then double up as a diesel era freight demonstration  rake

 

cheers

[pharrc20]

And therein lies the problem in that any kind of wagon will unlikely to earn any real money for the preservation lines up and down the country. Someday the preservation movement will probably turn around and say oh why didn't we preserve some of those wagons.... too late.

 

Cheers Paul

[westie7]

All the old OTA conversions from Mossend went to the torch just recently, probably the PFA's stored there will go too, if not already gone

[PatB]

Not so very many years ago, the 16T mineral, in all its myriad forms probably seemed pretty common, dull and not worthy of preservation.

 

How many are left now? The icon of freight traffic of the late 20th Century is on the brink of extinction with only a handful in preservation. Hell yes we need to preserve at least a representative selection of air-braked vehicles.

[hmrspaul]

Apparently OTA conserved http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=8763

ODA http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=14032

VAA - 22 results with a few more VBA

VDA - a number on wheels

VEA - dozens!

VPB - one (nice!)

I'll give up at that point.

 

There is certainly a dearth of opens, bogie bolsters etc.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Classsix T]

I saw a rake of 17 OBAs with mesh-sides parked up in the sidings at Peak Forest on Good Friday so these at least are being on used on concrete block traffic from Cemex at Dove Holes.

 

I did a proposal for an air-braked wagon preservation project some years ago but there seemed to be a lot of resistance to such an idea but ex-BR wagon types are being scrapped all the time and soon there will be no chance of saving any of these designs. Instead of buying yet another 37 or 47 why not buy ten wagons for the same price and do them up to represent the Speedlink era cos once they gone they've gone.....

 

Cheers Paul

I wish I'd bumped in to you before now Paul. The preservation groups I've been involved with in the not distant past would grasp an air-braked freight set with both hands. Would you be kind enough to PM me your contact details for further discussion?

 

Keep the faith, C6T.

[Stuart A]

I'd love to see a couple of each type of OCA/OBA/VDA/VEA/HEA etc preserved, one lot in Railfreight grey & red and the others in sector liveries, perhaps with a few PO air brake wagons thrown in to the rakes.

 

When I win the lottery......

[Jenny Emily]

I thought VCAs were early casualties, and may not have survived into privatisation? All the VFAs I understand were recoded to VEAs as the different TOPS codes would have made them and their (presumably) high value contents an easier target. They were, after all as I understand it, simply VEAs with an alarm.

 

Doesn't the MOD still have a lot of VEAs as internal users? I've seen a lot of VAA/VBA/VBA/VEA in use to store stuff undercover on preserved lines. I think some TTAs may also be preserved in use as water bowsers for steam locomotives needing water- wasn't/isn't there one at Kingscote? I was pleased to see at a recent trip to Shildon that a few air braked hoppers have been preserved there. I know of a few TEAs in use as static oil storage tanks - there are a few at Tebay truck stop minus bogies and buffers.

[Bon Accord]

There's at least two dozen VEAs in use as internal user (barrier) vehicles at Marchwood Military Port, together with a few LNER design high sided opens as well as a number WW2-era warflats. On top of that you have all the 'modern' stuff which (I think) is still in main line use, e.g. OCA, VGA as well as the curtain sided version of VDA (PVA?).

[Fat Controller]

VCAs were either transferred to the Departmental fleet as stores vans (largely for rolling stock spares distribution) or converted to FPA container flats for coal traffic before privatisation.

The MoD vans which resemble curtain-sided VDAs were largely ex-PO curtain-siders, either of the ex-Campbell's Soup fleet, or the longer 'Procor' type; they were given a going-over at Marcroft's (as it then was) Stoke, with new side-sheeting and a repaint, before going into MoD service. I think some former VIX ferry vans got the same treatment.

[Talltim]

This page is pretty useful http://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_027.php

[Glorious NSE]

Does anyone know (roughly) how many of these vehicles(*) still exist, and what sort of numbers are still in active use?

 

(*) I'm referring to the 2 axle vehicles with the TOPS O[ABCDET]A, S[AP]A, and V[ABCDEF]A codes. I'm assuming that most of the later VGA build are still in use, albeit with upgraded suspension and VKA coding. I am aware some of these TOPS codes relate to conversions rather than original build. I'm including any Z-coded vehicles from these series too.

 

DBS still use a large number of OAA/OBA/OCA/SPA opens in various departmental and revenue roles - OCA/SPA should be easy to find, but I would suspect the number of OAA/OBA that havent had their sides replaced by mesh ones is dwindling fast.

 

Still plenty of BDA around, and that would be a type worth including (and would have a useful railway role also).

 

There are some early (i.e. pre VGA/VKA) vans still in specific engineering roles as generator or tool vans, some look pretty much original, some have had serious mods to install generators and the like.

 

Most "Zs" reverted to their revenue tops codes after privatisation.

 

There should still be a handful of ZCA sea urchin in service - oddly enough, revenue service!

[dvdlcs]

Hello.

 

Thank you everyone for your responses (so far).

 

I was aware of LTSV but the Vintage Carriages Trust search engine is a nice find, thank you.

 

 

To comment on some of the points raised:

 

Earning their keep (or not): Presumably in the same way as the old(er) freight stock currently conserved. Presumably could be used for maintenance work on the line and as covered stores. I admit, not as exciting as locomotives or even passenger stock, but for me so much more *interesting* :-)

 

VCAs: Yes, they were early casualties. Not having full length access they were confined to a few traffic flows (tinplate to or from Tostre was one) and presumably when that went, so did they.

 

Other types: Could happily include other types in there, such as HAA, HEA etc. I would assume that the bogie vehicles, such as the bolsters, would have a longer service life and presumably still be in demand by the current operators. I seem to remember someone saying that there are only a handful of HAA MGR vehicles still around despite there being a five digit number built.

 

16t Mineral: I believe that there are quite a few around (VCT search engine lists 101 MCO/MCP/MCV although not all may be complete/operational) MCP is a new classification to me; I assumed they were either vacuum braked or not. I seem to remember hearing that the GCR was trying to assemble a significant rake to replicate the 'Windcutter' trains.

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

David.

[Fat Controller]

VCAs were supplanted by Ferry Vans on the residual tinplate flows from Trostre (Metal Box, Worcester, and export traffic).

Never heard of MCP (sounds like an antiseptic..); I understood the MCxs to be MCO (unfitted), MCV (fitted, eight-shoe clasp brakes) and MXV (fitted, four-shoe Morton brakes). The GCR does have a substantial rake, many being de-fitted examples.

About 13000 MGR hoppers were originally built; a lot have had bodies replaced by low box bodies for spoil use. Many of the apparent 'survivors' may exist on paper only, the wagons having been cut up.

[Glorious NSE]

HAA aren't really "speedlink" I guess - but they were down to just over 30 survivors IIRC the last time I looked - although there are a couple of preserved ones already.

[PatB]

 

Other types: Could happily include other types in there, such as HAA, HEA etc. I would assume that the bogie vehicles, such as the bolsters, would have a longer service life and presumably still be in demand by the current operators. I seem to remember someone saying that there are only a handful of HAA MGR vehicles still around despite there being a five digit number built.

 

16t Mineral: I believe that there are quite a few around (VCT search engine lists 101 MCO/MCP/MCV although not all may be complete/operational) MCP is a new classification to me; I assumed they were either vacuum braked or not. I seem to remember hearing that the GCR was trying to assemble a significant rake to replicate the 'Windcutter' trains.

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

David.

 

Over 100 16T survivors is a pleasant surprise but, out of, what? Half a million or so? Not a high survival rate. Sounds like the HAAs have gone the same way.

[40044]

Might still find the odd VCA in MoD internal use, now coded PDA and numbered MODA 74xx. I'm certain a few were converted at Allerton from ZYA stores vans.

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that the Army have recently disbanded their railway division, so don't be surprised if there is a major clear out of rolling stock soon....

[ZiderHead]

Theres a few 20T VIX and variants around at the Bucks, GWR, Spa Valley, Eden Valley Railways and possibly others

[hmrspaul]

Might still find the odd VCA in MoD internal use, now coded PDA and numbered MODA 74xx. I'm certain a few were converted at Allerton from ZYA stores vans.

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that the Army have recently disbanded their railway division, so don't be surprised if there is a major clear out of rolling stock soon....

There are already VCA conserved - including by NRM. http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=10692

 

Search the Vintage Carriages site for ZRA (not VCA!) (although other wagons are including in the search result). It is unfortunate that this site is so confusing to use;the death late last year of Charles Best will not  have helped as he was working on improving it.

 

This is an interesting one, no photograph unfortunately. If in decent condition it should be in the national collection http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=11310

 

Personally I think it is many of the more interesting privately owned wagons that were used on Speedlink which are going to be very difficult to conserve - not least the international (ferry) wagons which were an important part of the fleet - and the vast majority of the tank wagons can no longer work over here.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

PS - the unfortunate part of the conservation movement is that many take the view it is their loco/coach/wagon and they can be presented in any way - so we have this ODA http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=8850

[Glorious NSE]

This is an interesting one, no photograph unfortunately. If in decent condition it should be in the national collection http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=11310

 

http://www.departmentals.com/photo/787395 has photo's from 2006 and 2011 there. Love the striped roof!