LBSC/Southern E2 livery

[Knuckles]

Daaah, buggerur, that's a shame.   Truly I think the E2 in Yellow would be lovely.

 

Could you please direct me to something that shows how to accurately paint it in the umber then?  I'll happily do that too.

[steves17]

I can't give a company lists of colours to use on your model but from what I can tell the front of the tanks was left plain due to the westinghouse and Weir pump-so not like this.

Otherwise they should be like the E4 model I exampled last page.....although despite the book I refer to that mentions some E2s being repainted with the passenger livery between 1922-3 I am not aware of any evidence that shows it applying to the extended E2s. From the photos I do have we can probably eliminate Nos106 & 108 but unless someone out there has evidence of the other three then i'm afraid we've got a Schrodinger's cat situation.

An alternative for you though could be Southern Lined Black.

  

 

Just to close. I've found a few more E2 pics since my last post. The lining is still hard to make out as the quality is less than crisp but looking at the images blown up i'm convinced it is double vermillion and as I have come across a few dark looking first batch E2s i've pretty much found my answer for what the class started off as   Something I have spotted though is that there seems to be an unlined version of the LBSC livery. Initially I assumed it was just a build up of dirt, especially as i've yet to come across any text describing such a change ( except for the economic crisis during the 30s causing lining to be omitted on goods engines ), but i'm not so sure now.

 

1926

 

Anyone know about this?  

[Knuckles]

The way that E2 digital model is painted is exactly the livery I meant. That is how I would like to paint it. I contacted the Youtuber who desig ed it and am awaiting a responce about livery from him too.

 

I'm just after an illustrated proof of it if it exiats so I can accurately paint it rather than guess. I do wonder where he got those references from as I have not seen them in photographs or drawings yet.

 

Now regarding the weir pump I am wondering if I should make it and add it to the E2 kits as another option, more material though. They already are costing a bomb due to Shapeways' pricing methods. :/

[steves17]

Ok, probably best to ignore my previous posts as they were pretty flawed. I've since studied as many E2 photos and below is a short list for each one, best to message me if you're looking to model a member in a specific period.

 

No 100

 

Painted dove grey when entered service and while I could be wrong it appears that it worked in this livery for at least some time before being repainted in LBSC gloss black.

The next picture I have of it is working at the 'ballast hole' in Eastbourne and it is in a lined livery, but seemingly without LBSC on the tanks, probably weathering has faded them beyond recognition in this 3/4 shot. 

 

The next photo I have of it is in B fixation livery at New Cross shed. Mods are vacuum and steam heating equipment.

 

Next photo still at New Cross shed is still in B fixation livery but the smokebox has been replaced with a riveted type and it appears the boiler has been swapped. Other mods are upturned step and rearrangement of the pipes above the cab roof.

 

Next photo leaps ahead to April 1953 near Factory Junction & Stewarts Lane. Livery unclear i'm afraid but a BR numberplate has ben added to the smokebox. Mods include the removal of the Weir pump and disc irons and lower corners of the bufferbeam. Additions include screw link chain securing hook, smokebox lamp irons and 73A shed code plate.

 

April 1954 - Stewarts Lane

 

Cycling Lion in line with the middle axle and numbers above the rear axle. 

 

April 57 - Brighton Works

 

Cycling Lion applied further forward, ruffly in line with the dome. Tank numbers applied in the same position with '3F' seemingly above. Loco is withdrawn in this livery though the numberplate had its figures picked out in white and flash warning transfers were added on the boiler.

 

No 101

 

1921 - Battersea 

 

The next photo I have of it is at Brighton shed but is unfortunately without a date.

I'm pretty sure it is in single tone umber applied during a boiler swap and after the goods black livery was suspended in early 1921 due to the cost of the paint. The only obvious tell in the black and white photos is that the passenger lining stands out a lot more compared to the vermillion equivalent.

 

The next photo I have is in the 1920s, loco is B fixation livery. Mods seem to be just the fitting of vacuum and steam heating equipment.

 

Post 1931 

 

Loco is in SOUTHERN 2101 goods livery. Mods include riveted smokebox, upturned steps, relocated whistle and plated coal grill.

 

1948 - Eastern side of Victoria

 

Still in the same Southern 2101 livery. Mods include removal of smokebox lubricators and disc irons while lamp irons have ben added on smokebox door.

 

1957 - Southampton Docks

 

Cycling Lion just behind middle axle, numbers on cab panel with 3F above.

 

1958 Southampton Docks 

 

Same livery but a white marks has been added on the cab along with grab bars and guard irons below the bunker. Loco withdrawn in this state. 

 

 

 

1948, so quite a gap, but this one was taken at some point after it and you can see just how faded the lettering had become.

 

No 102

 

 

1927 - Battersea

 

September 1948 - Eastleigh

 

BRITISH RAILWAYS livery in the sunshine style, numbers on cab and number plate picked out in white. Mods include removal of Weir pump and possibly the patch on the upper middle of the bunker. This hybrid livery lasted till 1952 but a shed coat plate was added probably in 49 when in for overhaul.

 

August 1952 - Eastleigh Works 

 

Loco is ex-works. Cycling Lion applied and numbers also added on the tanks. Mods include new chimney and probably the warp round patch along the top of the bunker. Said cycling lion and tank numbers will be almost unrecognisable by 1957.

 

Around 1958

 

Loco overhaul and repainted in the Ferret & Dartboard livery, numbers applied to the tank as well. Mods include further patch on the bunker. Loco is withdrawn in this livery but hazard warning labels are applied on boiler between late 1960 and mid 61.  

 

No 103

 

According to LB&SCR Vol 3 this engine was painted umber before entering service and was given push-pull equipment, but said equipment was removed after the experiment proved to be a flop and later it was repainted black when it next received a coat of paint.

 

Date and location uncertain. 

It might be possible the loco is in umber here. Mods include rearrangement of the pipework above the cab roof and the wire loop feature has already been added (near the draw hooks, anyone know what their function was for?).  

 

1923 - New Cross shed

Loco in same condition.

 

Post 1923

 

Same livery but vacuum and steam heating equipment have been added.

 

1930s - Battersea 

 

Presumably the loco was painted in the B fixation livery,

 

but the next photo I have shows it with SOUTHERN lettering after the 2000 addition to the class in 1931. Mods include removal of cab roof pipework, disc irons while the lower bufferbeam corners have been cut out and the whistle has been relocated. Additions include lamp irons, upturned steps, grill plating and pump thingies on top of the tanks near the cab. Smokebox has also been replaced with a riveted type sans lubricators and I believe the boiler has been swapped as well.

 

1947 - Fratton 

 

Still in the same livery.

 

April 1950 

 

Passes through works and has the Weir pump removed. Presumably this is when the Cycling Lion livery was applied (lion between middle and rear drivers, numbers on bunker) but I am not certain if BRITISH RAILWAYS was carried in-between. Mods include addition of a number plate, new chimney and the front bufferbeam has either become heavily riveted or replaced while the upper bunker has been patched.

 

1956? - Outside Brighton works

 

Loco ex-works. Cycling Lion closer to the middle axle and numbers have been instead added on to the side tanks, loco withdrawn in this livery.

Late 50s?

 

'2FB' added above tank numbers while the lower bunker has been patched. Vacuum ejector pipe has been replaced (it doesn't feature the same kink). 

 

1961 - Stewarts Lane

 

Flash warning labels have been added.

  

I have no more pics until May 1956 where it is in a fresh looking Cycling Lion livery but I am sure this Hornby model is close to the mark for representing it in the B fixation livery (minus the lack of lining in the upper cab area and on the steps).

 

 

No 104

 

Same as 103 it was painted umber when built and fitted with push-pull equipment. What I don't know about these two is if the livery was two tone or just the light single tone umber. I am guessing it was the latter, as all of Billington's passenger rated locos were single tone umber from what I've gathered (except for his last 3 or 4 Baltics before 'Remembrance', which were two tone), but if any E2s ever donned the two tone it would of been these pre-war engines. Either way though they were repainted black at some point. The earliest photos I have of 104 is 1926 where it is in an unlettered livery, presumably black.

 

The next photo I have is April 1951 where it is in the Cycling Lion livery.

 

No 105

 

Painted LBSC black from the outset, which should be true for all the extended batch members.

 

1915

 

 

This one is undated,

but It was still in LBSC livery (seemly still black) in 1924. 

 

This next photo I do not have a date for but it is probably prior to my other example that is dated 1932. It has the B fixation livery and has already been vacuum fitted, though the whistle appears to still be on the roof somewhere.

 

 

 

No 106

 

Earliest pic I have is 1928, still in LBSC livery (black again it seems).

 

This one showing the Sunshine livery is undated but the presence of the U Boats class member No1907 places it in or after September 1931.

 

No 107

 

No date or location for this one but it shows the black LBSC livery

 

The next one I have is the B fixation livery, some point in the 20s-looks fairly crisp.

 

*Loco is now vacuum fitted but the whistle is still on the roof.

*The boiler has either been swapped or additional fittings have been added between the cab and dome.

 

This one was taken in 1927 and I presume is only slightly later than the above example.

 

 

The next photo I have is undated but it is in the Sunshine livery and the whistle has already been moved near the safety valve equipment to comply with the SR's composite loading gauge.

-It can be seen here and the bunker has been patched.

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/e2_class.html

 

Next photo is 1951, still in Sunshine but a '7' has been added.

*The roof has been dented at the apex.

 

 

No 108

 

I'm not a 100% if the dates I have are correct here. This clearly black livery example is apparently 1927 - Battersea

 

and this one is supposed to be 1928 - also Battersea.

*I've been hoping to find another pre-Southern livery photo to make sense of the different boiler apparatus between the dome and cab.

 

The next pic I have is during WW2 and the loco is in the Sunshine livery.

It still had in 1949, but in the next pic, taken in February 1957 shows it with the Cycling Lion near the corner of the extended tank section and the numbering is near the cab as opposed to the bunker (this was consistent right up to it's withdrawal). 

 

No 109

 

Undated - Brighton 

*Black livery.

 

1921? - between Hassocks and Hudson sand pits

*Black livery again it seems.

 

By 1933 is was in SR lined black, with the 2000 added.

*Whistle has been moved from roof.

 

The loco was still in this livery by 1938 but I have a large gap in the years after this point, the next one shows it in the 1950s with the Cycling Lion.

 

Anyway hope that is of some help for modellers. I need to cross check some shed dates to perhaps enhance things but if anyone is able to further fill in the blanks that will be great. Still we can at least discount the following odd ball liveries