Matching loads to car types...

[Glorious NSE]

Is there in existence somewhere a document that lets a (model) railroader match a specific freightcar (say, a specific bit of RTR tooling) with suitable real-world loads for that car - that would be useful for matching cars to industries, and loads to cars if you do "ops".

 

(If not, is there any interest in such a thing?)

 

I guess this is probably a more applicable idea to types such as covered hoppers or tank cars, which are at times pretty specific due to load densities and handling demands...and luckily we're in a position where the RTR manufacturers are increasingly good at providing us with specific cars, we don't have to use a generic covered hopper any more.

 

I'm sure many of us could take a decent stab at some loads for certain cars, and manufacturers sometimes help by providing that in prototype info, but i've also got the sneaking suspicion that we're probably missing others!

 

For example the ones below (all shot at Dolton IL during Sep 2000) i'm pretty sure will all have been carrying different things - a guesstimate would be plastic pellets, grain and the final one sand - but the middle one could be a wide variety of materiel, and as it's a smaller capacity (4427cu ft) car than "standard" would that point to something slightly denser than grain?

 

So, any interest? I'm happy to catalogue if folk have info they can share? Alternatively, if such a thing already exists i'd love to know!
 

[Colinw62]

Sadly I cannot add to the enquiry but what a great idea.

 

I'll be watching this thread with interest.

 

Colin

[LNRR]

Although they don't cover a lot of equipment types you might see, here's a couple of places to get some ideas:

http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/equipment/railroad-equipment/

http://www.uprr.com/customers/equip-resources/cartypes/index.shtml

Covered hoppers and tank cars are designed for many specific commodities so a little digging for more information on those car types would be required. For instance the photos above: ROIX 57028 - probably Plastic Pellets; ATSF 311042 - Grain, Feed, Fertilizer, etc.; WC 84897 - Cement, Roofing Granuals, similar heavy dense commodities.

[Glorious NSE]

See we have a winner already...."Roofing granules" is something rather alien to most Brit's...let alone considering it as a freightcar load. A quick google suggests that's a good load for the WC cars.

[Adrian Wintle]

Some tank cars are specific to a commodity and will likely be lettered for it (LPG/Propane etc) while others are more generic and the actual load is indicated by the number on the warning placards.

 

Adrian

[trisonic]

A Good Idea!

 

Best, Pete.

[dave1905]

This comes up every once in a while.  It is a hugely complex issue, what era, what level of detail on commodity type, variations on car type and condition, modifications to the cars.  There is also the issue of while a car could carry a commodity, did it ever carry that commodity? 

 

For example frac sand, silica sand, roofing granules and molding sand could all be transported in a car similar to the WC car, but would that car lettered for the WC have carried any or all of those commodities?

 

What level of detail do you want on the commodities?  Grain vs. corn, soybeans, wheat, barley, hops, rice, milo, cocoa beans.

 

If you asked me what a short ore gon (PRR G39 type) carried in 1970 I would tell you taconite or iron ore.  If you asked me the same question in 2010 I would tell you sand.  On the other hand iron ore or taconite could be carried in 46 ft, 52 ft, 65 ft, mill or general service gons, twin hoppers, tripple hoppers or quad hoppers (depending on road, location or era).

 

I found a record for the ROIX car and it was carrying "Bulk Synthetic Plastic OT Liquids (Granules) PVC" from a plant in Louisiana and has been carrying that same commodity for over a year (6 loaded trips in a year).  While there might be several commodities that that type of car could carry, its possible that specific car could only carry that one commodity for decades, possibly its entire life.

[steve1]

It would be good to expand this into earlier periods too, like Transition and even pre-Transition.

 

I would like to have more confidence in the prototypicality of the visible loads I have in my gons and flats for instance.

 

steve

[Fat Controller]

See we have a winner already...."Roofing granules" is something rather alien to most Brit's...let alone considering it as a freightcar load. A quick google suggests that's a good load for the WC cars.

Are 'roofing granules' those very small granite chippings that are spread over felted flat roofs, or coated on to one side of roofing felt, in the UK? Most seem to end up in the gutter after the first downpour..

[Adrian Wintle]

It would be good to expand this into earlier periods too, like Transition and even pre-Transition.

 

I would like to have more confidence in the prototypicality of the visible loads I have in my gons and flats for instance.

 

steve

 

In the transition period it is likely that anything that would fit in a gon was carried in one at some point. Sand, gravel, coal, ore, plate steel, coil steel, scrap, ties, lumber, etc.

 

I'm assuming that roofing granules are the chips that go onto roofing shingles to provide the colouring, so presumably carried from wherever they are created to a factory making roofing shingles.

 

Adrian

[ChrisH-UK]

This comes up every once in a while.  It is a hugely complex issue, what era, what level of detail on commodity type, variations on car type and condition, modifications to the cars.  There is also the issue of while a car could carry a commodity, did it ever carry that commodity? 

 

True indeed, it doesn't provide a definitive answer but when combined with locations & dates it possibly allows many possibilities to be reduced down to far fewer likelihoods and from there maybe narrowed down by research or local knowledge.

[jrossouw79]

The other day I saw a video on youtube of a GE 44-tonner switching the Nucor steel plant in Seattle.

It had a 3-Bay Covered Hopper and 4 scrap gondolas behind it.

At first I thought what are a hopper doing at a steel plant then I read the comments and it stated that

the hopper contained Lime which is used in the steel making process.

[pH]

I think there's two sides to this. First, what could a particular car be carrying?

 

This comes up every once in a while.  It is a hugely complex issue, what era, what level of detail on commodity type, variations on car type and condition, modifications to the cars. 

 

For example frac sand, silica sand, roofing granules and molding sand could all be transported in a car similar to the WC car, but would that car lettered for the WC have carried any or all of those commodities?

 

I don't think you're ever going to be able to be definitive about what a car is carrying, without seeing documents for the particular trip. Here are pictures of three cars in the same group, belonging to the MKT: 

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/bkty1300as.jpg

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/bkty1302amf.jpg

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/bkty1331amf.jpg

 

The first one is dedicated to calcium carbide transport - see the note on the centre panel. It's obvious what the second one is used for. The third one was previously used for sand, but is now in different service, probably cement. Just going by classification (LO) and road number (between 1300 and 1374), you would not be able to say what they would be carrying.

 

Another MKT example. Here's an 'XL' boxcar, with a striking colour scheme: 

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt5508abp.jpg

 

But if you look at the lettering to the bottom left of the door, you'll see that it is not for general use, but is dedicated to military ammunition transport.

 

And I've found this:

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt4192abp.jpg

 

Look at the top right corner of the side - there are load lines for different types of load (though I'm not sure how you can make sure loads on the inside of a covered hopper line up with the outside lines!).

 

Although they don't cover a lot of equipment types you might see, here's a couple of places to get some ideas:

http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/equipment/railroad-equipment/

http://www.uprr.com/customers/equip-resources/cartypes/index.shtml

 

The second side of the problem would be - what kind of car would a specific industry use?

 

I think documents like these are probably the best option for matching your online industries with the required car types.

[Glorious NSE]

This comes up every once in a while.  It is a hugely complex issue, what era, what level of detail on commodity type, variations on car type and condition, modifications to the cars.  There is also the issue of while a car could carry a commodity, did it ever carry that commodity? 

 

For example frac sand, silica sand, roofing granules and molding sand could all be transported in a car similar to the WC car, but would that car lettered for the WC have carried any or all of those commodities?

 

I agree that it cannot be made detailed enough to cover specific cars/pools in specific fleets at specific times, and i'm definately not proposing to deal with conversions, scratchbuilding etc...

 

Ultimately, the final call will be down to the modeller.

 

Who's to say for example that if (for instance) those cars are assigned to roofing granule service in real life, but you're modelling a fictional frac sand pit on the WC that they would not have used some of the same cars to serve that industry instead. (Else, you're into freelancing yourself a fictional freightcar fleet to serve your fictional locations, does anyone who isn't a freelancer do that?!)

 

And if you're modelling a real industry then researching the real specific cars and real specific loads is surely more feasible.

 

 

 

The second side of the problem would be - what kind of car would a specific industry use?

 

If you know what commodities are involved, then searching the doc for those commodities should give you the RTR cars that can handle that car type.

 

 

 

I think documents like these are probably the best option for matching your online industries with the required car types

 

To an extent, but you still need to translate that real world data into what models match each category.

[Pugsley]

I found a record for the ROIX car and it was carrying "Bulk Synthetic Plastic OT Liquids (Granules) PVC" from a plant in Louisiana and has been carrying that same commodity for over a year (6 loaded trips in a year).  While there might be several commodities that that type of car could carry, its possible that specific car could only carry that one commodity for decades, possibly its entire life.

Out of interest, is that a typical usage profile for that kind of car?  6 loaded trips in a year doesn't seem to be a very efficient use of an asset.

[Fat Controller]

Out of interest, is that a typical usage profile for that kind of car?  6 loaded trips in a year doesn't seem to be a very efficient use of an asset.

It's marginally better than the utilisation of 16-tonners, pre-TOPS, though the distances involved are probably considerably greater. 

[Adrian Wintle]

Out of interest, is that a typical usage profile for that kind of car?  6 loaded trips in a year doesn't seem to be a very efficient use of an asset.

 

Depends on whether they use it in lieu of having a silo at the destination. Also, if it is carrying a substance that is sensetive to contamination it may be cheaper to have a low utilization rather than cleaning it before each load.

 

The car is owned by Shintech, who claim to be the largest producer of PVC in the United States. It may be that this car is dedicated to a particular grade or molecular weight of resin.

http://www.shintechinc.com/

 

Adrian

[pH]

Out of interest, is that a typical usage profile for that kind of car?  6 loaded trips in a year doesn't seem to be a very efficient use of an asset.

 

There's a concept in the plastics industry in North America of 'storage in transit' (SIT). Product is manufactured, loaded into hopper cars, then stored in specially-built railyards until needed, so a car may not travel very far in a year. Here are pictures of some such yards: http://www.wtbyler.com/work/industrial_petrochemical/sit_projects_2007_2008 (three pictures). And here's a discussion on SIT, with (I believe) input from 'dave1905' of this parish: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/183101.aspx .