Autocoaches in the 60's

[gareth1210]

Hi All,

 

Just a question about how Autocoaches, were used on the Western Region, in regards to;

- can another coach like a surburban B be placed inbetween loco and autocoach

and

- how and where would goods be connected to the train (if this ever happened).  

 

After a bit of research on the web, and probably abit to much of picture surfing, ive ended up confusing my self. and need a bit of help.

 

 

[buffalo]

If the autocoach is leading and so is being used for driving then anything between it and the engine must be fitted with the through regulator gear as well as electrical connections for ATC and bell. Normally this could only be another autocoach, however, there were some 'intermediate trailers' without driving cabs that were intended to be used between an engine and autocoach. Diagrams A41 and A42 intermediates were converted from third class coaches originally to diagrams C66 and C75 in 1953-4. All of these were used in South Wales and had been condemned by 1961.

 

Otherwise, it would be more normal to see a non-trailer coach added as a strengthener at the rear of an auto train. Similarly any goods vehicles would be coupled, as tail traffic, at the rear of the train.

 

Nick

 

ps. there were earlier intermediate trailer type, notably the 'Clifton Down' stock, though all had gon by 1949 so are even more outside of your period.

[Karhedron]

Occasionally a trailing coach would used as a through service to Paddington. Peter Gray has a nice shot in one of his books of a 6400 and autocoach with a corridor brake composite through-coach. Don't have the book to hand so I cannot remember exactly where. Might have been Moretonhampstead.

 

Autotrains could haul freight as well. This was often done if the load was modest or the line well served as it was easier than having another loco to work the line. The Marlow Donkey ran a mixed train each day in the 50s. Not sure if the mixed service survived into the 60s (see the second photo on the page below).

 

http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm#1950s

[Danemouth]

Occasionally a trailing coach would used as a through service to Paddington. Peter Gray has a nice shot in one of his books of a 6400 and autocoach with a corridor brake composite through-coach. Don't have the book to hand so I cannot remember exactly where. Might have been Moretonhampstead.

 

Autotrains could haul freight as well. This was often done if the load was modest or the line well served as it was easier than having another loco to work the line. The Marlow Donkey ran a mixed train each day in the 50s. Not sure if the mixed service survived into the 60s (see the second photo on the page below).

 

http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm#1950s

Karhedron,

 

Liked that picture but was left wondering:

 

• Would there be a brakevan at the end of the train? and
• If not would the wagons/vans needed to be fitted with a continuous brake?

Anybody got any idea please?

 

An autotrain with a couple of vans would like great on Danemouth!

 

Many thanks,

 

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

Karhedron,

 

Liked that picture but was left wondering:

 

• Would there be a brakevan at the end of the train? and
• If not would the wagons/vans needed to be fitted with a continuous brake?

Anybody got any idea please?

 

An autotrain with a couple of vans would like great on Danemouth!

 

Many thanks,

 

Dave

We need to separate various things Dave.

 

Firstly aut-trains could convey tail traffic just like any other (or almost any other) passenger train - the requirement being that the vehicles had to be suitable to be attached to a passenger train (the 'XP' marking in later days was a way of identifying such vehicles).

 

A Mixed Train was something rather different - firstly it had to have timetable or notice authority to run as such and that was in some respects limited by things such as distance between stations or percentage of the number of trains run over a line and such trains were normally found on branch lines or occasionally on very extended secondary routes.  A Mixed train could convey most general sorts of freight vehicles, they had to be formed extreme rear and they had to have a freight brakevan on their back end.

 

On the GWR auto-trains were permitted to shunt freight vehicles with the auto-trailer attached to the engine (subject to any local restrictions about curvature and clearances etc).

 

An auto train with a couple of vans would probably equate to tail traffic (as long as the vans were vacuum braked)

[Danemouth]

Mike,

 

Thanks for the info, your memory is better than any railway encyclopaedia!

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[gareth1210]

Well, thanks for all the responces, much to think on, and i wait to see what else pops up.  

 

could someone possibly explain what are Diagrams A41 and A42, (i still have alot to learn about BR operations and such, problem with being born into the world of Privatisation)

 

Diagrams A41 and A42 intermediates were converted from third class coaches originally to diagrams C66 and C75 in 1953-4. All of these were used in South Wales and had been condemned by 1961.

 

[chrisf]

A41s and A42s were 9 compartment non-corridor thirds with no driving compartments.  Comet make a kit claiming to be for diagrams C66 and C75 from which they were converted [by the addition of underfloor control rodding] but be wary:  the C75 has deeper windows than the C66 and a different body contour so if you make the kit as supplied you will end up with a hybrid!

 

Chris

[chrisf]

I would endorse the recommendation above.  The pair of volumes are as comprehensive as one would wish to find and repay very careful study.  I doubt that any other author and publisher taken together could have produced as thorough a work.

 

However, as we have been discussing A41s and A42s, it is a great pity that the drawings for both diagrams are labelled as if they were the other.  It is also unfortunate that John Lewis chose to describe the shade of red adopted by BR in 1949 as' maroon'.

 

Chris

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Wild Swan vol 1 on autotrailers is still in print, Vol 2 is out of print