What colour are 'red' GWR wagons of the later Victorian period

[drduncan]

Without wishing to reopen the debate about when the GWR switched from 'red' to grey wagons (Gareth and I have already been debating this on my workshop blog), what do people feel is the shade of red used if fresh from the paint shop, or what shades (and from what supplier eg Humbrol, Railmatch etc etc) would you use to simulate a weathered red GWR wagon.  There are some beautiful examples of red wagons in the GWR modelling website liveries section if you need inspiration or haven't a clue what I wittering on about.

 

drduncan

[Miss Prism]

We do whatever Mikkel does.    
 

The original red was undoubtedly a red oxide, but that covers a multitude of shades, and I can't imagine the GWR was too fussy about the precise colour. The shade of a weathered one would look somewhat lighter/washed out (add some white) but would also have a layer of grubby filth on it.

 

This thread should probably be merged somewhere into the existing ones on the same subject.

[buffalo]

...This thread should probably be merged somewhere into the existing ones on the same subject.

 

Ah, but which one? We've discussed this a few times before as a quick search would show.

 

A couple more from Mikkel's blog here and here, and a couple of forum topics here and here. Much discussion of the dating in these, as well.

 

A modern immitation of the old red lead primer (e.g. Halfords) is a good starting point but, as Miss P, says, fade with age.

 

Nick

[MarkAustin]

I recall some years ago some people from the BGS viewed a contemporary large scale model of  a GW wagon in red, and the description of the colour was "Rizla" (the cigarette paper) red.

 

Mark A

[drduncan]

Thanks, Mark. very helpful.

 

D

[MikeOxon]

For my 2p worth, see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1405/entry-12835-trial-of-the-reds/ and following discussion. 

 

Although some have written about the colour lightening with age, it seems more likely to me that it darkened, since oxide paints turn to black sulphide in a coal-smoke atmosphere.

[buffalo]

Whilst the rapid darkening of the white lead paint (based on a carbonate, not an oxide) used on GWR van and coach roofs is well known, red lead is an oxide and, as a paint, is relatively stable. By itself, the pigment does darken if left unused, however, once mixed with linseed oil forms a stable red paint. If white lead is added to the mix, then the paint is liable to fade. A 'light' or 'bright' shade might result from using a pigment from the more orange end of the colours available in red lead, or by mixing with white lead. On the other hand, these adjectives may just be a product of the Victorian and Edwardian liking for dark colours and surprise at seeing a brighter colour.

 

Take a look at the well-known photos of the broad gauge dump at Swindon. One of these shows a number of three and four plank wagons in a very light shade. They also appear to have been used to carry a pale or white substance (chalk, china clay,...?). Of cource, we can't be certain whether they are red or grey or some other colour, but they are most definitely faded.

 

Nick