Tricky-CRS Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I am looking for some advice with view to producing an N Gauge Kit of a breakdown crane support / tool / mess van or coach.I am struggling to find a good general vehicle that covers a good area, it needs to be a purpose built or a conversion with differences to its original condition. Any Help will be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I've got plenty of SR departmentals here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srdepartmentalcoach This may be helpful Kidner, R. W. (1993) Service stock of the Southern Railway X51. 128pp. Oakwood Press ISBN 0 85361 429 6. Another useful source http://www.departmentals.com/ As a suggestion the Ironclads http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srdepartmentalcoach/e1d77cd01 I believe there were several, and they are most unusual with the unique style of bogie. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I would go along with the Ironclad idea too (Paul beat me to the suggestion!!). they were long-lived and common in engineers trains over most of the region. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Thank you I will look into these options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Does anyone have any ideas for earlier vehicles that were used with cranes from 1930s onwards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Here are some taken between 1988 and 1992. They would have worked with breakdown cranes since probably the 1950s. The first four were seen in April 1988 (sorry but can't remember where - somebody must recognise the background) apparently displaced from duties. ADE320388 seen in April 1988. Marked "Stewarts Lane Breakdown Train Unit (Tool)" ADS70012 marked "Stewarts Lane Breakdown Train Unit Staff" ADS70015 marked "Stewarts Lane Breakdown Train Unit (Tool)" DS70011 with no allocation details DS70011 The opposite side seen at Hoo Junction 28 Jan 1992 Three of the Selhurst BDV on 9 Jan 1990, by then carrying the internal user number 083607. In the 1990s, and probably dating from several years before, Stewarts Lane BTU had a PMV or CCT type of 4-wheeler and what I think was a 35T GLW tank wagon for water. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Thank you a couple look really interesting, does any one have drawings or more details about ADE320388? or any history of "internal user number 083607" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2014 Thank you a couple look really interesting, does any one have drawings or more details about ADE320388? or any history of "internal user number 083607" http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/erdepartmentalstock/h288f136f#h288f136f http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/erdepartmentalstock/h2f9c309d#h2f9c309d http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/erdepartmentalstock/h2fb916bb#h2fb916bb http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/erdepartmentalstock/h2174c29f#h2174c29f http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/erdepartmentalstock/h2080aa75#h2080aa75 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/erdepartmentalstock/h2a048fc9#h2a048fc9 ADE320388 was an ER conversion, how it ended up on the SR I don't know. The coach it was rebuilt from 82445 was a one off build of a new body on an undeframe of a war damaged coach, Hence the two dates in Paul Bartlett's photos. When built new in 1935 (as 64075) it was a 1st/2nd composite, of the unusual (for the LNER) length of 54ft 1 1/2 ins and was airbraked. It was built to diagram 205. It was one of a series of coaches built for the GER suburban services, the non standard length of these coaches was so they macthed the ex GER coaches already in service and like the GER suburban coaches they were airbraked when new. Peter Tatlow's "Railway Breakdown Cranes" has a cross section drawing of a standard LNER corridor coach with the same tool van conversion. The frames either end were part of a hoist that would lift the heavy gear and place it next to the derailed wagon/coach through the end doors. The narrowed end had jacking points, these had been removed from ADE320388 by the time the photos were taken. The LMR and ScR had similar converted coaches, from LMS stock. My own Tool Van was based on Paul's photos but used a Kirk non-corridor first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm not sure how we moved on to the Stewarts Lane breakdown train, but this is the tank http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stewartlanecrane/e22a8ee99 and this is the ex PMV http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stewartlanecrane/e257320d0 as mentioned earlier. The full set of 35 photos is at http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stewartlanecrane Paul PS Clive, thanks I didn't know the history of ADE320388 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm not sure how we moved on to the Stewarts Lane breakdown train, 'cos the title of the thread is "SR Breakdown Crane support van or coach" and the photos posted are what I could find. Simples! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Were any Ironclads altered for crane use in the late 30's early 40's? If so does any one have any details ie a picture or drawing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I think it unlikely that any Ironclads were used as service stock before c1960, although there is always an outside possibility that one was damaged in an accident (or enemy action) in such a way that it was uneconomical to repair for passenger use but it was suitable for an emerging service stock requirement. The first 1959 phase of the Kent Coast electrification project resulted in a fair amount of Bulleid and MkI Standard stock becoming spare and these vehicles/sets were moved to other parts of the Southern Region to replace ageing (and especially non-standard) vehicles such as the Ironclads. In many respects though the Ironclads were "modern" vehicles (not very different in concept, but very different in detail, from the Maunsell stock which largely remained in everyday use at that time) and it was this that led to the selection of many of them for conversion to service vehicles rather than being scrapped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Kidner mentions that the Ironclads were the first SR bogie carriages downgraded to departmental use. Some 50 coaches converted in the late 1950s. This for example is recorded as a 1958 conversion http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srdepartmentalstock/e1d77cd01 . They were less than 40 years old. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 It depends what is meant by an SR bogie carriage. The construction of Ironclad carriages overlapped the grouping so some could be called LSWR-built and some SR-built; there was even a late batch that included some SR design input. If one takes "SR" to mean "owned by the SR", the Ironclads certainly weren't the first bogie conversions to service stock which had certainly commenced before the end of WWII and quite possibly earlier. One example was 1967S/DS1967, a conversion from an SE&CR Birdcage brake in April 1944, which was in turn replaced by an Ironclad conversion in 1963/4. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-2484-0-18587800-1393071628.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 It depends what is meant by an SR bogie carriage. The construction of Ironclad carriages overlapped the grouping so some could be called LSWR-built and some SR-built; there was even a late batch that included some SR design input. If one takes "SR" to mean "owned by the SR", the Ironclads certainly weren't the first bogie conversions to service stock which had certainly commenced before the end of WWII and quite possibly earlier. One example was 1967S/DS1967, a conversion from an SE&CR Birdcage brake in April 1944, which was in turn replaced by an Ironclad conversion in 1963/4. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-2484-0-18587800-1393071628.jpg I am pretty sure he meant built by the SR. There were many earlier coaches converted to departmental use, as illustrated in his book. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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