Balboa "Master Series" brass question

[Willy]

Can someone tell me about something about Balboa "Master Series" brass please, in particular the On3 DRGW C19 2-8-0.

There is one on ebay which has been converted to DCC with Tsunami sound, and the seller says that “It is a superb runner and sounds great” but, as I am not a brass aficionado and I have never heard of Balboa, I don't know if it is worth the asking price.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Link to item - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ON3-DRGW-C19- ... 3390d306cb

 

Thank you.

 

Willy

[shortliner]

Willy - I know nothing either, but look at Caboose Hobbies, and Brassguide .com for price comparisons - I would think it is very reasonable value with it having what looks like a good paint job, and sound

[alfsboy]

Looks good to me .I have painted quite a bit of brass over the centuries and that one looks great .Its probably had a remotor too as its DCC but its one of the few I havent painted in the past .Most  Balboa came with a  Pitmann  open frame motor in early years but its probably all been upgraded  to take sound though in fairness they ran OK .

[Willy]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I seem to recall that a lot of brass from the earlier years had open frame motors and often looked better than they ran and I didn't know where this one stood but as you say, it probably had a remoter when they fitted DCC and sound.

 

I was worried about the wheels but he says that the threads are like new and certainly look reasonable in the photo. It's also encouraging that it you both think it looks good.

 

I had a look at Brassguide.com but there is nothing there.

 

This loco was listed for auction last week and I didn't bid. It went for £390.00 so I suppose, even though the buy-it-now price is higher, it is not unreasonably so.

 

Thanks again

 

Willy

[ngtrains.com]

Sorry to thwart you but I have just bought it.

 

Balboa produced a number of quality brass models. I already have a few in my 0n3 collection and this one will probably replace the unpainted and tarnished one that I haven't got round to doing anything with yet. I may also let my less detailed MMI C19 go.

The final thing that persuaded me was that I think I recognise the hand of the person that did the conversion in the way its been done so I am happy that it will be a quality job.

 

Its perhaps not a surprise that the first purchaser got it wrong thinking that the model would run on 0n30 as the item specifics in the listing state its 0n30 and Bachmann Spectrum

[shortliner]

Willy - I based my comments on http://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Trains/Roads/5/Denver-Rio-Grande-Western  #23 and #33 - Balboa will almost surely have imported it from either Japan or Korea

[Willy]

Sorry to thwart you but I have just bought it.

 

 

 

Ah well, he who hesitates is lost!

 

 

Willy

[Focalplane]

Too late with my comment, but this may help in the future. I had a Balboa GS4 Daylight 4-8-4, factory painted but un-numbered. It was made in Japan.

 

It ran well but the flexible rubber tube drive between motor and gearbox needed replacing so I upgraded the motor to a modern can type (this was in the 1990s). It ran really well, looked good and pulled almost prototypical loads.

 

A few years ago I decided to add DCC and sound and things started to go wrong. I was working in Calgary at the time and a LHS took on the project and farmed it out to an expert. He still has it. It worked once. It's the old story of the fitter blaming the decoder, etc etc.

 

My experience with adding DCC to older locomotives, brass or plastic bodied, is not to do it, but I am sure others will have had better experiences. By contrast, my Broadway Limited GS4 is one of those that worked straight out of the box (not all of them do, apparently) and has excellent sound, pulling power and detailing. Of course there isn't a modern model of every type of steam locomotive, unlike the huge variety of brass locomotives.

[jjb1970]

Brass models tend to value appearance above running qualities, and I say that as an avid enthusiast of brass. Most of my US brass is diesel, not steam, and with very few exceptions the running qualities are at best average and in many cases would be criticised on plastic RTR models. Most of my models are Overland and they have a particular problem with flakey plastic ball joints that end up failing, you can address it by soldering in brass replacements but then you can also question why you need to do that on expensive models when the problem has been recognised for many many years. That said, quite often it can result in a bargain as people find a model that is very jerky or just makes motor noise but doesn't move and it ends up for sale at a low price as a non-runner or poor runner when 9 times out of 10 for Overland models it is a pretty quick and easy fix. At least later run brass is DCC ready, years after even the most basic plastic was DCC ready premium price brass models were not even DCC ready never mind DCC chipped. Funnily, some of the older Japanese brass with open frame motors were actually better runners than later Korean brass with high end motors. If this all sounds a bit negative then I'd say I love brass models and have no regrets at all about my brass fleet.

[ngtrains.com]

 

My experience with adding DCC to older locomotives, brass or plastic bodied, is not to do it, but I am sure others will have had better experiences.

 

I have done a lot of my brass models over to DCC without problem but the key things is to really chase out any opportunities for short circuits.  As you say they often value appearance over running quality but then most ended up in display cases,  The thing I do is ensure they are they are free running and that bits of the valve gear, brake blocks, pony trucks and so on can't cause shorts on DC. Lots of DC controllers are tolerant of momentary shorts so the loco just keeps running but I use one with a fast acting and instant cut out on it. It is also worth running it in the dark and looking for the flashes of momentary shorts.

 

I do this before doing any re-motoring or detail work and then repeat it afterwards to make sure I haven't added to the problem.  Only then do I add the DCC element to the mix.

 

It can be quite time consuming and you might ask why its necessary but it usually applies to brass models from an era before DCC. I have only blown one decoder up on my 0n3 fleet and, annoyingly, that was on a more recent production MMI loco that had dodgy brake gear that only caused a problem after it had been packed in its box which squished it into the wheels.  I do do it commercially but customers are reluctant to pay a realistic price for the care and attention needed to do the job properly. I can understand their reluctance on top of the, probably, high price they paid but then I do still need to make a living and as the saying goes time is money.

[jjb1970]

The susceptibility of brass models to short circuits was one of the reasons for BLI's brass hybrid series which combine a regular chassis and mechanism (non brass) with a brass body. That works pretty well as a compromise between the benefits of finer detail via brass with a robust and reliable mech fitted with all the mod cons like sound. They're amazingly good value too. I don't have much in the way of brass steam, with the Overland diesels it is not so much short circuits as their mechanism design. They use good motors but the transmission is not the best. That said, one of my best models is the old Westside/Mizuno NYC Hudson, that is ancient in having been made in 1977 but is a wonderful model, very solid, weighs a ton and is a very smooth runner. That was one of the late US outline models to come out of Japan as most brass went to Korea and show cased just how good Mizuno were.