RMweb Gold Tankerman Posted July 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2014 Knowing what a wealth of knowledge exists on this forum I think that there is a good chance that these questions can be answered. From about 1955 to 1964 I used to go to Truro on some afternoons and one of the regular trains seen was the milk train from St Erth. Memory plays tricks, especially when it was so long ago, and the only type of BG I can remember was the Hawksworth type. Were any of Collett's used during the mid/late 50's and were the Hawksworth's replaced by BR standard ones before the use of BGs ceased? I can remember that at least some were lettered "To work between St Erth and Kensington only". Were there any other destinations? Were all the vehicles used so lettered or were some without the branding? Final question. My memory may well be, and probably is, playing tricks, but I seem to remember that on at least one occasion a brake second or brake composite was used instead of the full brake, but I cannot remember if this was a Hawksworth or BR type. Does anyone know if this happened? Thanks in advance for any answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I have an incomplete list of brandings carried by WR vans which suggests that 55 of diagram K40 - a Collett design contemporary with the Airfix type B sets - carried "Penzance and Kensington Milk Train". How long it carried this wording I know not, I'm afraid. There were several other brandings dictated by where milk traffic originated - Weymouth, Whitland and Wootton Bassett [which I regret to say Modelmaster have spelled incorrectly]. Brandings were also carried by BGs [full brakes], Siphons G and Fruits D in parcels, mail and newspaper trains. Many such vans were allocated to regular workings but knowing the [G]WR I would be surprised if they all carried the necessary lettering and even more surprised if they stuck regularly to their booked duties. Only the other week I found a photo of a Siphon G at Poole full of pigeon baskets and clearly labelled "To work between Paddington and Whitland". I do not know when branding died out but it lasted long enough to be carried by a few BR standard full brakes. This is a real can of worms. I hope that your question flushes out some of the answers which many have sought for many a moon! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The 2 regularly rostered vehicles I know of in the 1950s were both Collett brakes. One was K40 W55 which was branded "Penzance and Kensington Milk Train". It was repainted in 1948 and so wore a hybrid GWR/BR livery into the early 50s. I have made a model of it in N Gauge. The second was a K41 W142 which was painted in crimson and cream and identically branded. Now these were the rostered vehicles in the early 50s and I have a photo of W142 behind a Castle in 1957 so it seems to have lasted on that duty until at leas that date. Having said that, there could be plenty of occasions where a rostered vehicle was unavailable and another would be substituted. By the 1960s, I would not be at all suprised if Hawksworth BGs had been rostered to the west-country milk train. I have seen several photos of milk trains from the 60s with a K45 or K46 so they were certainly common on these services. Sadly I don't have vehicle numbers available for any likely candidates. A brake second or brake composite would be unusual but not impossible. The requirement was simply to provide accomodation for the guard and a BSK or BCK would fit the bill. I can only imagine it happening if no BGs were available at short notice. I haven't seen any photos showing Mk1 brake vehicles on WR milk trains. Mostly they seemed to use pre-nationalisation stock and save the newer stuff for more important services. Not all BGs were branded for a particular route and a branding did not guarantee a particular vehicle on a particular route. They represented the planned usage but the best laid plans..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I have an incomplete list of brandings carried by WR vans which suggests that 55 of diagram K40 - a Collett design contemporary with the Airfix type B sets - carried "Penzance and Kensington Milk Train". How long it carried this wording I know not, I'm afraid. There were several other brandings dictated by where milk traffic originated - Weymouth, Whitland and Wootton Bassett [which I regret to say Modelmaster have spelled incorrectly]. Brandings were also carried by BGs [full brakes], Siphons G and Fruits D in parcels, mail and newspaper trains. Many such vans were allocated to regular workings but knowing the [G]WR I would be surprised if they all carried the necessary lettering and even more surprised if they stuck regularly to their booked duties. Only the other week I found a photo of a Siphon G at Poole full of pigeon baskets and clearly labelled "To work between Paddington and Whitland". I do not know when branding died out but it lasted long enough to be carried by a few BR standard full brakes. This is a real can of worms. I hope that your question flushes out some of the answers which many have sought for many a moon! Chris The last vestiges of branding were on the Siphon Gs and associated vehicles used for newspaper traffic; these lasted well into BR Blue days, possibly even until such services ceased. Apart from the Siphons, I recollect a Stanier 50' brake lettered something like 'For use on Paddington- West of England Newspaper Trains Only' in somewhat larger characters than were used on the Siphons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2014 If you are a member of Robert Carroll's BR Coaching Stock Yahoo Group there are several carriage working notices on there. If you look at the western Region ones they give the formation of trains including Parcels and Milk Trains right across the WR. Most of the milk trains give the number of the brake vans used. The group address is https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tankerman Posted July 18, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2014 Thanks to, Chris and The Fat Controller for the additional branding information, I didn't remember until I read your posts that I had seen other traffic vehicles branded. Karhedron for correcting my faulty memory, most of the full brakes I saw must have been Collett and not Hawksworth. The Signal Engineer for the information about the Yahoo Group, I've joined it. Chris P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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