7APT7 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Hi to RMWeb Members RE: TORNADO and Front & Rear Lamp Formations... I need some help with regards to the Tornado and the Front and Rear Lamps as we see it run today on BR Main Line, if BR is an acceptable word for today??™s railways. The Photos attached are of the Tornado when it parked up overnight at Bescot in the Midlands on its way down from York to the South Coast area... Notice from the Pictures there are Two Lamps fitted to the front of the Tornado, and notice that only the Left Side Lamp is a light and shining... and is only pulling a Single Support Coach behind...! When and in what circumstances would the Two Front Lamps be a light for modern day travelling and do they only light up White or do they light up Red as well depending on the circumstances... That were I need the HELP...!!! If anyone as knowledge as to the correct various ways that the Tornado??™s Lamps Light up and what colours are they When they are a light and in which circumstances would the front lamps be a light in Red or White or Both at the same time... Is there a Lamp on the back of the Tornado...? I notice that the support coach as a modern lamp on the back. Reasons Why I Ask the Question...! I have purchased the latest Bachmann Tornado 60163 (Item No. 32-550A) B) someone I know is going to fit the lamps for me, but needs to know what colour lamps are required to be fitted on the front... and whether they can be a combination of Red & White depending on direction of travel if being pulled...etc. I??™m using DCC Supplies lamps to achieve the end results, as you can buy the Lamps that light up i White, Red or Red & White, and as the Red & White lamps are a little more expensive than the other two versions of lamps. Do both lamps on the Tornado (the L & R) turn RED when being pulled by another Loco at the back of the rake of coach when running on BR Mainline? As I want to accurately mimic the Lamps on the Real Tornado to the Bachmann version. Please See the Pictures below to Study and hopefully someone will know the answer. If anyone can help, please reply back to this thread and will be well appreciated...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I think it basically conforms to the headlight rules that apply to modern stock in that, during dalight, it will have the offside(second mans side) headlight lit whereas at night it has the nearside(drivers side) lit so as not to dazzle the drivers of oncoming trains. I'm not sure if those lamps have high and low settings but will only have one lit brightly at a time. They will just stick a standard tail light (such as you see on the back of the coach) when it is at the rear of a train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Chameleon is correct, it conforms to current Network Rail lighting rules, but they've gone a bit further than that it seems. Chapter and verse from someone closely involved here: http://www.modelrail...showtopic=11253 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 I think it basically conforms to the headlight rules that apply to modern stock in that, during dalight, it will have the offside(second mans side) headlight lit whereas at night it has the nearside(drivers side) lit so as not to dazzle the drivers of oncoming trains. I'm not sure if those lamps have high and low settings but will only have one lit brightly at a time. They will just stick a standard tail light (such as you see on the back of the coach) when it is at the rear of a train. Hi and thanks my friend So the Lamps on the front NEVER lit up in RED whatsoever...? Is that Correct...? and on the Back of the Tornado either on the Tornado itself or the end coach... Just a Modern RED Flashing light...? Couple of photos Ive seen both lamps are on, in what case would this be...? Thanks Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Well I suppose for effect, there's nothing to say they can't have both headlights lit during the day. The reason modern trains don't Is because they have a switch for day head/ night head/ maker lights or neither. You can't turn both on at once. Don't know if the lamps on Tornado are switchable from the cab but I'm guessing they are battery powered and independently controlled so you can switch both on at once if you want. I really doubt they can show a red as well as they will always have a tail light to put on it , generally after a brake test, it's the last thing you do to make a train complete. I know EWS (as was) had emergency head lights (Lego bricks) that could be used on a loco. There aren't switchable to red either. Guess you are going to have to work out some way of replacing a headlamp with a taillamp when you run in reverse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Well I suppose for effect, there's nothing to say they can't have both headlights lit during the day. The reason modern trains don't Is because they have a switch for day head/ night head/ maker lights or neither. You can't turn both on at once. Don't know if the lamps on Tornado are switchable from the cab but I'm guessing they are battery powered and independently controlled so you can switch both on at once if you want. I really doubt they can show a red as well as they will always have a tail light to put on it , generally after a brake test, it's the last thing you do to make a train complete. I know EWS (as was) had emergency head lights (Lego bricks) that could be used on a loco. There aren't switchable to red either. Guess you are going to have to work out some way of replacing a headlamp with a taillamp when you run in reverse Thanks for the info So I take it... a Head Lamp and Tail Lamp are different in Colour (Actual Colour of the Lamp itself and not Lamp Light Colour)... as in White in Colour as the Head Lamp with White LEDs either Both lit White or Just one lit White to... and for the Modern Tornado Black in Colour for the Tail Lamp with RED Flashing Lamp...on the rear...! Is that Correct... Slowly getting there...LOL I say about do they light Red at the Front for when its on Br Mainline but being towed at the other end so the Tornado is going Backwards... Can you just clarify that bit for me....? Greatly Appreciated Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 No, tail lamps are generally white. If you look at the picture of the back of the coach, you can see the white lamp with the red lens. It also has a red reflector on it. Every train on BR has to have a tail light at the rear. Even if that rear is a loco getting towed backwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB 34067 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 They will just stick a standard tail light (such as you see on the back of the coach) when it is at the rear of a train. Nope they have lights underneath the lamps that go red for when its going backwards see here: http://james-bartlet.../p62908707.html ATB James http://james-bartlett.fotopic.net/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 No, tail lamps are generally white. If you look at the picture of the back of the coach, you can see the white lamp with the red lens. It also has a red reflector on it. Every train on BR has to have a tail light at the rear. Even if that rear is a loco getting towed backwards. Thanks for the information So it is possible to say then... That one of the White Lamps on the front of the Tornado will or can be lit up RED when it is being towed... from the other end with the Tornado travelling backwards, which the Tornado would then be classed as the rear of the train... Hence a Red Flashing Lamp Is that Correct...? Finally ... If so, is there any particular side or place the RED lit Lamp goes on at the front of the Tornado while travelling backward as it is being towed...? Thanks again for the information... it so valuable when you try to imitate the real life but in model form, so I say Thanks for all Input of the RMWeb members. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB 34067 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Thanks for the information So it is possible to say then... That one of the White Lamps on the front of the Tornado will or can be lit up RED when it is being towed... from the other end with the Tornado travelling backwards, which the Tornado would then be classed as the rear of the train... Hence a Red Flashing Lamp Is that Correct...? Finally ... If so, is there any particular side or place the RED lit Lamp goes on at the front of the Tornado while travelling backward as it is being towed...? Thanks again for the information... it so valuable when you try to imitate the real life but in model form, so I say Thanks for all Input of the RMWeb members. Jamie See my post above Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 See my post above Hi James... Thanks for the Link and the Picture within it... that seems to have resolved part of the issue... I didnt know they were lights under the Lamps that lit up as well... now it all starting to makes sense...! But I can see 3 Red Lamp; well I take it they are RED when lit (Left & Right & Middle) even though there are only two of them lit in the link picture... When and in what circumstances would all 3 Left, Right & the Middle lit up in Red... and would you ever get the White and the Red lit up together... I think Ive nearly got all the answers I need to replicate it on to my Bachmann Tornado... Regards Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Quote taken from the modelrail forum. Im guessing the poster of this is involved with Tornado itself n knows what he's talking about: 60163 has marker lights (4) on both front and rear, three at buffer beam level, one at smokebox top height. On the original class these were Stones lamps and we used original Stones housings and lenses fitted with LED clusters to provide the light. The Stones lamps had a moveable filter to change them from white to red and vice versa, we use alternative clusters of LEDs (the lamps had to be cab switchable to conform to group standards). In normal operation we carry two LNER style handlamps on the two outer brackets on the front buffer plank. These are equipped with clusters of high intensity LEDs to provide a running light for the daytime (LHS as you look at the front of the loco) and a ditch light for night time running (RHS) - the focus of these is slightly different, the ditch light having a lower throw. I'd guess as they are switchable from the cab, various combinations are possible, though it looks like two lamps on the bufferbeam would be lit as tail lights. The only time you would get red AND white lights at the same end would be while shunting. 08 shunters often had this setup with a red and a white light showing. This was because it was reversing back and forward so often it was not practical to keep changing them about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 Hi Juat to say thanks for all the information gathered... And taking time out to answer the questions involved... Regards Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB 34067 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Hi James... Thanks for the Link and the Picture within it... that seems to have resolved part of the issue... I didnt know they were lights under the Lamps that lit up as well... now it all starting to makes sense...! But I can see 3 Red Lamp; well I take it they are RED when lit (Left & Right & Middle) even though there are only two of them lit in the link picture... When and in what circumstances would all 3 Left, Right & the Middle lit up in Red... and would you ever get the White and the Red lit up together... I think Ive nearly got all the answers I need to replicate it on to my Bachmann Tornado... Regards Jamie Oh yeah just notice that one not sure when they use that one but if they had red and white on thats when in its on shuting dutys i think which though dont do much these days Edit just seen Chameleon post. Tornado is a very 21st century steam locomotive ATB James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 Oh yeah just notice that one not sure when they use that one but if they had red and white on thats when in its on shuting dutys i think which though dont do much these days Edit just seen Chameleon post. Tornado is a very 21st century steam locomotive ATB James Hi Can anyone explain the 3 Red lights, the Left, Centre & Right found on the front of the Tornado...? When all 3 lights would be lit, as I have only seen the Tornado with 2 red lights on when it is being towed from the other end of the rake... When would it be that the 3rd Red light would be lit... would it be lit with the other 2 Red Lights at the same time (Left & Right) or would it be that the Red Left & Right lights turn off and the Centre Red put on...? Can anyone just clarify the usage of ALL or Part Off the 3 Red Lights on the Front of the Tornado...? Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pufferman Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 I have just looked at the thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/7085-60163-tornado/page__hl__60163__fromsearch__1 and I have found a picture a way down with the two lamps fitted to the loco lit above the buffers white, and with the LNER lamps above with only one lit. That tells you that the lamps on the buffer beam both show white and red light. All 4 of the locos own lamps, would be lit for a royal train, or lamps on all brackets, althou then 60163 pulled the royal train only had 3 LNER lamps fitted and the lamp on the 4th bracket was missing. Not sure if that helps at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pufferman Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Hi Can anyone explain the 3 Red lights, the Left, Centre & Right found on the front of the Tornado...? When all 3 lights would be lit, as I have only seen the Tornado with 2 red lights on when it is being towed from the other end of the rake... When would it be that the 3rd Red light would be lit... would it be lit with the other 2 Red Lights at the same time (Left & Right) or would it be that the Red Left & Right lights turn off and the Centre Red put on...? Can anyone just clarify the usage of ALL or Part Off the 3 Red Lights on the Front of the Tornado...? Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted December 4, 2010 Author Share Posted December 4, 2010 Hi All Can anyone clarify the 3 lights on the front of the Tornado and when they would be in use...??? Cheers, to everyone on the RMWeb Have a great XMas. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Hi I spoke with the trust and they helped me do my lighting. If you plan to do it properly you need to have 8 independent functions for the front lights. You have 4 front marker lights which are white. The(2 express)ones are also red which would be used when the loco is travelling in reverse. Real Tornado first photo only. Dont forget the running lights see below and the tender lights also which requires another 8 function decoder just for the tender alone. I used 22 independent functions just for the lighting on Tornado. Hope that helps. M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Chris Chewter Posted December 5, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2010 Apparently, the white lamps were made by this supplier: http://www.footplateequipment.co.uk/news.shtml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Hi I spoke with the trust and they helped me do my lighting. If you plan to do it properly you need to have 8 independent functions for the front lights. You have 4 front marker lights which are white. The(2 express)ones are also red which would be used when the loco is travelling in reverse. Real Tornado first photo only. Dont forget the running lights see below and the tender lights also which requires another 8 function decoder just for the tender alone. I used 22 independent functions just for the lighting on Tornado. Hope that helps. M Hi all Sorry the late responce, Thanks for the infomation and pictures of the LED lighting you have uploaded for me to see. Great to see and replicate. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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