RMweb Gold kipford Posted October 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2014 Pete Reference the colour of the third rail. Photo below was taken at Havant back in February, it shows the rail is basically the same oily/greasy colour all over ( visible with the naked eye). Unused third rail though is very rusty all over, see edge of second photo taken at Chichester. On Brighton like you I chemically blackened the third rail, then sprayed them with Pheonix Precision track colour (oily leaks). I also paint the insulators the same colour. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Just catching up Pete, so excuse the rash of ratings! Developing well and if anyone deserves somewhere to escape to from time to time - it's you! Keep at it. Is 'Mile Cross Road' still on hold or have you given it up? Kind regards, Jock. Hi Jock, thanks for stopping by. Mile Cross Road is on hold. I made a monumental c*ck up with the scenics and pretty much rendered the whole scenic section as scrap. The fiddle yard board and trestles are put to one side and I'll start again when the N gauge bug next bites. Knowing me, that won't be too long because there's a certain serial N gauge micro-layout builder that keeps unknowingly inspiring me. Damn him. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Dave - thanks for uploading those pics of Havant, not just because it's an area I know well. Certainly shows the oily black look of well-used 3rd rail. I have to confess to being something of a lazy modeller... once I've blackened the 3rd rail, I don't do anything else to it - I just slide on the insulators. Having said that, when it's in place on the layout, I give it all just a quick blast of track colour, but that's more to tone down the bright white of the insulators. Looking at the pictures, next time I lay 3rd rail, I'll probably paint the insulators while they're still on the sprue because they're certainly not white - in fact they're almost invisible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 like the look of this layout, nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) I'm still messing around with the road bridge/scenic break. The road bridge is in place but I need to finish building up to it with some offcuts of knaufboard foam insulation and get the contours right. I'll upload some pics when I'm happy with this. At the moment, I'm thinking it could be better... As I'm working upstairs with just an extension lead and a single bulb, I can only really make progress during daylight so last night, I thought I'd mark out and cut the road deck for the bridge. I brought this down to the kitchen and under much better light, I was able to paint and weather the road surface and add the markings. You can see the kerbs alongside the masking tape, but the actual pavement will be fitted in place later to make sure the paving slabs are a tight fit up against the bridge girders and brick piers. As with the platform, the opportunity was taken to add some patched up tarmac in a slightly different shade. You'll notice the road over the bridge is a two-lane one way street. Why? I have no idea! Seemed like a good idea at the time... Edited October 18, 2014 by Pete 75C 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2014 Those road markings look very good. I was trying to add RR X markings to Santa Barbara last night using a 3D printed template which under testing worked great but on the layout went horribly wrong so had to paint them out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Those road markings look very good. I was trying to add RR X markings to Santa Barbara last night using a 3D printed template which under testing worked great but on the layout went horribly wrong so had to paint them out! I've always struggled with road markings! I was never happy with the N gauge printed sheets I used to use on previous layouts. In OO, I've tried everything from emery paper for the road surface through to roofing felt which was way overscale and far too coarse as you can imagine. I've cut paper templates and sprayed on the road markings. There would almost always be overspray which would ruin everthing. I even tried using a bow pen and that ended badly! Now the roads are made almost the same way as the platforms. 3mm MDF sheet is cut to the correct width on a table saw (I dislike visible joins). The MDF is sanded with very fine emery paper. Everything is sprayed with cheap grey car primer and allowed to dry. I use Plastikote Suede Touch paint from an aerosol to give the road some texture although this doesn't show in the pictures. When this is thoroughly dry, more grey primer and then some misting from other darker shades of grey. Masking tape is used to give the impression of repairs and the repaired sections are given a thicker coat of texture paint and then a much darker grey, almost black, topcoat. Finally, black and white weathering powders are used just to mix everything up a little and tone it all down. The road markings shown above are simply laser cut vinyl graphics. They're a little shiny when applied, but although it's impossible to see in the pictures, the same weathering powders are used to tone them down. The thin vinyl stands a little proud of the road surface just as the road marking paint does in real life. This seems to work well for OO but might be a bit too deep for N. I've tried to resist the temptation to use all the vinyl graphics that came on the sheet - everthing from zebra crossings to disabled parking bays! It is only a road bridge! There probably wouldn't be a bus stop on a road overbridge in reality but I couldn't help myself! Ian, for Santa Barbara, what on earth is the 3D printed template you used? Do you spray the markings through it? Sounds useful and maybe just needs perseverance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2014 Yes they are USA style markings templates that you spray through. They are on Shapeways website. I have tried hand painting through them and as expected that didn't work. Spraying onto the MDF of the new layout (will soon be hidden by scenery) I had numerous successes so decided to try on the road surfaces but I may have over done the spray hence it bled through. I will just have to practise more. Vinyls do sound like a god idea in00 but in N as you say there would be too much depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steve Purves Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2014 Just caught up with this thread, I must say Pete, its looking good. I have followed your example with my new box of weathering the track before and a light dusting after ballasting. Really impressed with the road surface, one of the trickiest things to get right I think. I don't know what you mean about inspirational micro layouts though?! If you want to stay away from side projects, don't look in the boxfiles section for a while... I can see you having a slip up with something I'm road testing! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I don't know what you mean about inspirational micro layouts though?! Yes ya do... If you want to stay away from side projects, don't look in the boxfiles section for a while... I can see you having a slip up with something I'm road testing! I promise I won't look... With regard to the road over the bridge, I really wasn't sure about putting a bus stop on it, but there will be a pedestrian path leading down from the bridge along the backscene as an alternative walking route to the station and the high street... That's my excuse! Plus, it's a nice opportunity to use more than just the double yellow lines from the vinyl sheet which really is a quality product and very easy to use. I've just purchased a set of EFE London bus stops which are far superior to the old Merit items. There just isn't enough pavement width for a bus shelter, sadly. All the bridge needs now is a couple of street lamps and a "One Way" road sign. Oh, and the pavement! I had planned to use the Metcalfe self adhesive slabs but I've had mixed results with these in the past, so I've opted instead for some Wills Victoria stone paving sheets. I'm tempted by an EFE Daimler Fleetline DMS double decker on Route 37, but the price is a little steep at £29.50! There is a cheaper version of the DMS with slightly less detail - I just can't make my mind up. It has to be a DMS though, as these ran on routes 154 and 157 through Wallington up until around 1990ish. Hope to get some more pictures up towards the end of the week, but missus is insisting I do some decorating. Pah. Mind you, the house is going on the market when it's finished, so I guess it's all for the greater good... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Just about happy with the bridge... what I'm not happy about is looking straight at that bank of point motors through the bridge. I've taken the first shot from a cruel unrealistic angle but I'm wondering if I can do more to disguise the fiddle yard through the bridge... Hmm. You can see the gap in the parapet wall where there will eventually be some steps leading down to a footpath that continues along the backscene to the station entrance at the other end of the board. I've also used some scrap plastic H girder section and some cooks matches to make up the sleeper embankment running behind the extended platform. Note the bus on the bridge... Cliché? What cliché...??!! You just can't have a bridge without a bus on it. It's the law. Or it should be! Still lots of weathering to do and disguising the odd stray glue mark on the bridge, but now it's in place, it seems to work. On a serious note, if anyone can offer any tips about disguising the entrance to the fiddle yard, I'm all ears! Maybe I'm being too critical because stood in front of the main scenic board, with it set at about 40 inches from the floor, you can't actually see through it. More soon. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Pete, could you mirror the retaining wall and embankment thats on the station side to disguise the point motors? Layout is looking excellent, i really like the trackplan, just that little bit different. cheers Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks Graham, that works really well. All I've done is prop up some spare brick sheets and at eye level it does make a huge difference. Why didn't I think of that? Duh... I'll definitely use that as a solution and I'll eventually make up some proper retaining wall sections to match what can be seen on the scenic side. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted October 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2014 Pete Just realised (because I looked a bit more closely) that your track plan is not dissimilar to that on Brighton East? You obviously have good taste!!!!!! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Dave, the first thing that springs to mind when seeing your track plan, is "Damn. Why didn't I think of that!?"... It is an excellent use of space. I must go back through your layout thread, I haven't paid a visit for a while. What I particularly like about the plan that I eventually came up with is the fact that it isn't going to be easy to operate - that just makes me relish the challenge. It probably scores low on the "prototype probability" scale though... I'm also pretty sure only having three 4ft fiddle yard roads is going to be a pain. The whole "limited space, Minories etc" theme is a personal favourite and I've long been drawn to an urban terminus. I'm also a big fan of Ian Futers' 3-point plans. I sometimes think a large roundy layout in OO would be nice but I reckon if I ever had that kind of space, I wouldn't know what to do with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted October 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2014 Pete Excellent we seem to be following the same design philosophy! Brighton was designed first and foremost as a layout that was going to be interesting to operate and from the limited exhibition running we have done it seems to fulfil that aim over a complete weekend. Interestingly it runs at its best with two operators, one on the passenger lines, the second on the yard. Like you we are limited in fiddle yard space (1050mm) which allows a maximum of a 3 car unit, that's why we have two '3' VEPS, (We were assured by people who knows these things that a 3 VEP did actually run). However where we do differ is in the use of cassettes and the flexibility it gives with the amount of stock that can be run. The other major benefit is that you can easily store complete trains in stock boxes on the individual cassettes. We use three sizes, long ones at 1000 mm for the 3 car units, medium ones 700 mm long for 2 car units and goods stock, then short ones 300 mm long for the locomotives and Caroline. In your case it may be worth considering changing one or two of the fixed roads into a cassette to increase the operating flexibility. Before the end fiddle yard board was added, Brighton was run with two cassettes in roughly the same position that your FY is in. The reason for adding the extra board though was we operate from the front, the layout is housed against a wall at home so getting around the back of the layout proved to be challenging and the extra board gave extra storage space. Keep up the good work. Do you intend to exhibit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Morning Dave. I believe there were some 3VEPs at least in later Connex days. During my time with BR, Network SouthEast and finally Connex, they also mucked about with some 4VEPs and made some VOPs. I think the VOPs were mainly to be found on the East Grinstead line whereas I spent most of my time on the Brighton line and the Mid-Sussex through Horsham down to Portsmouth. The layout will ultimately be pushed back against a wall and operated from the front. At the moment, we have several rooms with chimney breasts and the alcove to the RH side of the chimney breast will allow "ducking under" to rescue anything that comes to grief in the fiddle yard. We plan to sell the house over the next year or so and I might not be so lucky next time. The height of the backscene and the 14" depth of the boards shouldn't make access too difficult though. I had considered a traverser which would have eliminated the need for the Y and 3-way points, giving longer storage roads but, like cassettes, that would have made operating from behind a neccessity. As a purely home-based layout and the fact that I don't have unlimited stock to run, it will probably suffice as it is. The house move in the (near) future is simply the reason that I made the layout portable, splitting it roughly in the middle. The two sections will fit comfortably in the back of a small van. I don't have any exhibition aspirations, I'm still very much learning with each layout and making plenty of mistakes as I go. Maybe one day when the kids are older, I have more time and my model railway skillset has improved (soldering, scenics, scratchbuilding etc). I actually get immense enjoyment from the building of a layout and the thought of it actually being finished to a standard that other people might want to look at it fills me with dread ( ) - to that end, I usually have one eye on the next project! Also, from an exhibition point of view, Brighton East has the potential for a lot more on-scene activity to hold the viewer's interest whereas I see Manor Road as much more of a small-town setting with not a great deal going on at any one time! Edited to get rid of all the spelling mistakes - I need more coffee... Edited October 23, 2014 by Pete 75C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steve Purves Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2014 That bridge looks spot on Pete, looks like no lego was harmed in its construction either Keep looking at this thread and having a lean towards a 3rd rail box... must resist... for now! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 That bridge looks spot on Pete, looks like no lego was harmed in its construction either Keep looking at this thread and having a lean towards a 3rd rail box... must resist... for now! Guess what I used as strengthening blocks for the glue joints on the inside of the bridge piers? Go, on - have a guess... As for resistance... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steve Purves Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well, once 'Apagele' is done, and then 'Boxhorn Lane' is done and all the time work is going on behind the scenes on 'Melton Mowbray'. I have had an enquiry about an 0 gauge wagonworks too... I might have to try a 3rd rail jobbie in N... South of the Thames was always foreign to me in my bashing days as cromptons and logs did nothing for me. All those 'TLA' were seemingly meaningless. I think that adds to the attraction, something radically different to everything I have done before (and you can pick up the farish CEP/BEP/VEP whatever it is quite cheap) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 The only thing that puts me off a 3rd rail layout in N is the third rail itself! I've seen two methods which I thought worked well - the best looking was soldering Code 40 bullhead rail to those ultra thin Peco track pins, the other method was to use insulated rail joiners as chairs, having trimmed off the excess leaving the bare minimum to grip the rail. If I was ever to attempt it, I think I'd go for the second method as I'm a bit of a soldering muppet... I had enough trouble soldering Code 75 to copperclad at the baseboard joins on Manor Road, never mind trying to solder Code 40 to microscopic track pins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steve Purves Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2014 I always thought 'Bexham' had a nice rendition of third rail... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74684-bexham-south-coast-n-gauge-dcc/page-5 its size fits right in to my idea's bank too... I think this was the layout where I started coming over all southerney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2014 The bridge is looking good and the addition of the brick retaining wall the other side certainly helps. I'm with you as far as operation is concerned and a small layout with limits on siding lengths / fiddle yard certainly adds to the interest, particularily at exhibitions. Operating a simple layout on 2 days can get rather tedious. I would much prefer to spend 30 mins or shunting wagons etc around than running trains round and round a larger layout. One of club layouts is one such type and I find it soo tedious to operate at exhibitions! So much better with a bit of head scratching working out where and how to move various wagons around and of course the kick-back siding adds so much to operating interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Strangely, when I dabble in N gauge, I much prefer to build something where I can sit back and just watch trains run by unattended but the complete opposite is true of OO. I think even if I had the space for a roundy in OO, I wouldn't go there. I do sometimes struggle a little with some of the finer detail in N, so maybe that's the attraction of a compact end-to-end in OO... I can make a little extra effort with some of the small details that just wouldn't be possible (or even visible) in N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Spent some time yesterday throwing some greenery at the road bridge end. Actually, it's only the road bridge end that is showing any progress. I need to stop fixating at this end of the board and get the backscene finished and a multitude of other jobs started. The part of London I grew up in (technically North Surrey) could be pretty leafy so even though this is set in a small town, I thought there was no harm "prettying up" at least part of the layout and adding some undergrowth. Still needs some work, but you get the idea. Some road signs and a couple of lamp posts added to the bridge which does make a visual difference. I guess the next job should be to continue the path along the backscene. Edited October 25, 2014 by Pete 75C 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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