robbie58 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hello there, I have a Lima Class 33 which was originally painted into an Irish Rail Class A loco. The old Lima pancake motor is completely dead and I am now looking to overhaul the loco. The Class A is actually a Co-co configuration while the class 33 is Bo-bo. Would anyone be able to recommend a set of bogies including a new motor which may be suitable for the conversion? The newer style NEM couplings would be preferable to the old tension lock arrangement. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 I always thought they were meant to be C Class locos which were bobo. Mine is numbered 215 for instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie58 Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 I had not really considered the C class. The A class is 15.55 metres long while the C class was just 12.8 metres long. The Lima class 33 is approximately 14.5 metres long in OO scale. Having considered this I suppose there is not much difference between the two class if intending to use a 33 chassis and bodyshell. My loco is numbered 015 which resembles the numbering of the A class. Either way, the cab and sides of the model will require cutting and patching to resemble either class. The buffer beam would also need to be extended from behind the body shell. If I find a motor to go in the bo-bo bogie it will be C class, if I find a co-co bogie and motor, it will be A class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 I had not really considered the C class. The A class is 15.55 metres long while the C class was just 12.8 metres long. The Lima class 33 is approximately 14.5 metres long in OO scale. Having considered this I suppose there is not much difference between the two class if intending to use a 33 chassis and bodyshell. My loco is numbered 015 which resembles the numbering of the A class. Either way, the cab and sides of the model will require cutting and patching to resemble either class. The buffer beam would also need to be extended from behind the body shell. If I find a motor to go in the bo-bo bogie it will be C class, if I find a co-co bogie and motor, it will be A class. I'd flog it to a collector and buy the Silver Fox version myself tbh. Not perfect by any means, but a lot better than major surgery on a Lima 33. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie58 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 After some more searching I found the "Susumotor" for €8. I will give it a try, just have to install it where the old motor was and hopefully it will work. The part which I was most worried about is the tension lock couplings, as I'll have to remove them and butcher on some NEM pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 After some more searching I found the "Susumotor" for €8. I will give it a try, just have to install it where the old motor was and hopefully it will work. The part which I was most worried about is the tension lock couplings, as I'll have to remove them and butcher on some NEM pockets. Be careful - some of these so called drop in motors are not - guess how I know ? Also check the motor voltage, the ones sent to me we actually 6v motors. Easily worked around on dcc but not so on analogue. Couple that with the high Lima gearing and you have a virtually uncontrollable loco. Sorry to be the bearer of possibly bad news, but forewarned is forearmed. Let us know how you get on? Rgds, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Be careful - some of these so called drop in motors are not - guess how I know ? Also check the motor voltage, the ones sent to me we actually 6v motors. Easily worked around on dcc but not so on analogue. Couple that with the high Lima gearing and you have a virtually uncontrollable loco. Sorry to be the bearer of possibly bad news, but forewarned is forearmed. Let us know how you get on? Rgds, Andy There are suitable motors in old CD players, both automotive and Computer, just use a scalextric drive pinion on the armature shaft and if necessary pack the motor into the old motor housing to keep it straight and hold it with a strap across where the the old Lima motor end cap fitted using the fixing screws. However theses are more like 3-6 volt than the 14 volts most controllers deliver so use a suitable resistor . They may be uncontrollable with certain nasty types of resistance or chopper controllers both DC and DCC due to their low current consumption and high torque but I use variable voltage controllers both OnTrack and H and M and have no problems at all, and that without using resistors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 There are suitable motors in old CD players, both automotive and Computer, just use a scalextric drive pinion on the armature shaft and if necessary pack the motor into the old motor housing to keep it straight and hold it with a strap across where the the old Lima motor end cap fitted using the fixing screws. However theses are more like 3-6 volt than the 14 volts most controllers deliver so use a suitable resistor . They may be uncontrollable with certain nasty types of resistance or chopper controllers both DC and DCC due to their low current consumption and high torque but I use variable voltage controllers both OnTrack and H and M and have no problems at all, and that without using resistors. A 'suitable' resistor may have to dissipate a fair amount of energy - say 3W or more, depending on load. Also you say ".............no problems at all, and that without using resistors......" - does that mean you only use the very low range of the controller output when the motors are 3-6v operating voltage? Rgds, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I have put CD motors into a number of Lima Pancake bogies, and all run well using a variety of DC controllers. In fact, they are more controllable at low speed than the original Pancake. The top speed is high, but you can put the resistor in to reduce that. 8 euros is rather expensive for one of these, unless you also get the replacement 'front plate' to mount the Susumotor exactly in the right place as well. My technique is to use some plasticard - can send you a photo if that would help? The CD motor/Susumotor drive shaft is slightly less than the original, so you will have to do a little work here. I obtained a supply of old Lima pancake armatures, and have used them to salvage the spur gears. The spur gears will then fit onto the Cd motor, with a suitable sleeve fitted. I found some wire sheathing that is just right, and the spur gears fit very snugly and with no slipping. I do have a number of spare CD motors, with spur gear fitted. If you would like one, please PM me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie58 Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I received the Susumotor this morning from Finland. It came with very clear instructions and I had it in the model in about 45 minutes. I'm new to this, so most of that time was spent getting tools and kit ready to go. http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n607/carricadeemodels/SDC17707.jpg Once the old motor is removed the Susumotor sits in place of the old one. You have to be careful lining up the motor and gears. The gear on the driveshaft had to be adjusted slightly to line up with the gears. I used some superglue as recommended (after failing with all purpose glue) to stick the motor into the case, ensuring that the driveshaft was dead centre in the hole. I checked this by running the motor and listening for resistance. http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n607/carricadeemodels/SDC17709.jpg The Susumotor is thicker than the original, however I still managed to get the old cover into place with a few longer screws, which hold the motor and cover tightly in place. No further modifications are needed to the motor housing or loco body. http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n607/carricadeemodels/SDC17710.jpg I connected the red wire to the front bogie pickup, and the black wire via the brass clips on the faceplate to the rear bogie. I have been running in the motor in both directions following a thorough gear cleaning and lubrication. The motor is not quiet, however it is not any louder than the old motor would have been. The slow speed operation on DC is good. The motor is rated for 3-5V so it gets warm if set at too high a speed. It does not get warm at low to medium speeds. I will eventually fit a DCC decoder and set CVs for top speed etc. http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n607/carricadeemodels/SDC17708.jpg It is great to see a 12 year old loco running...it never ran properly (was probably never cleaned) but now it seems to be perfect. I will be converting this class 33 respray into an Irish Rail class C loco in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Looks like same type I bought.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Good work Robbie - it is most satisfying when these things work! You will find that most of the noise is not actually the motor, but the original Lima gears. I have found the Susumotors to be very quiet when run on their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie58 Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 I agree that the gearing in the loco is the main problem. The model also wobbles at any speed above a crawl, as I seem to remember it did originally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercity125 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 As has been mentioned by another poster on here, the main problem with noise is down to the gears. This is as a result of flash still attached to the side of the cogs or the teeth of the gears. It can be rectified by sanding the flat sides of the cogs with fine wet n dry paper, whilst the teeth require a strong magnifier/lamp to see if there is any flash on the teeth which requires a sharp modelling knife to carefully remove. Lima motors are generally OK, and easy to strip down and service. The secret is clean wheels and pickups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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