SNCF "Cupboard Door" Minerals on UK non coal traffic?

[brianthesnail96]

I've recently bought a Parkside SNCF design "cupboard door" 16T mineral for use (in it's originally intended role) on BT&S. I've since been told that they weren't particularly popular as coal wagons, partly due to the unloading arrangements, but found favour in some other uses such as chemical traffic in drums etc, the sort of thing that would be a pain to load into a normal open wagon but wouldn't require the protection offered by a van. This would seem logical given the ease of loading from a "dock" through the opening side doors.

 

Is there any truth in this, and even better, does anyone have any pictures of these wagons in non- mineral use? With BT&S being a chemical works (tar distillers) if what I was told is true they are almost ideal and I may bolster the fleet with another one or two over time.

 

Cheers!

 

Matt

[Mick Boyd]

Hello Matt,

 

my understanding is that they were not to be used to carry P.W. ballast or other engineers materials due to a number of accident involving the swing doors.  A useful article appeared in Modellers Backtrack, No. 3 August/September 1991, a photo on page 132 shows them in use in chemical traffic.  The associated text mentions their use in chemical and specific traffic.

 

300 of the wagons were sold to British Titan Products who removed and plated over the door aperture, they were used to carry ilmenite (see: http://www.galleries.com/ilmenite), see also:  http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsncfmineral

 

Regards, Mick.

[giz]

There is a photo of one carrying drums in David Larkin's 'Wagons of the Early British Railways Era'. The photo caption says that they were often used as open wagons.

 

They were also used for sand traffic in East Anglia, sold to Pointers Transport and some were operated by SFM Co.Ltd in Scotland (sheeted over). There are photos of both of these in the early David Larkin book 'Private Owner Freight Wagons on British Railways'.

[DOCJACOB]

All the stuff so far is excellent and the only little snippet I have to add is 2 of these re-bodied versions were at Ludborough Lincolnshire Wolds Railway. One was scrapped and the underframe of the other still exists blocking the track bed near Pear Tree Lane Utterby.

 

If you look in wagon section of vintage carriages trust website under Lincolnshire Wolds Railway then my larger images and some additional text are to be found   

[brianthesnail96]

Cheers folks- will have to keep my eyes open for those references. I see what you mean about blocking the trackbed at Pear Tree Lane- that looks most surreal.

 

The layout is set in the early to mid 60's so there would have still been a few around, and they were possibly even a preferable option to the remaining timber bodied wagons for the kind of thing I want them for. Something a bit unusual to model anyway.  

[Fat Controller]

I have seen photos of them in Loco Coal use (though not branded as such), and in sugar-beet traffic. I think they may also have been used for the refuse traffic from Ashburton Grove at some point.

Another reason they wouldn't have been used for coal traffic in some regions is the absence of end doors. This would have meant they couldn't be used for export coal in South Wales or from other regions where end-tipping hoists were used.

[middleton1955]

Hi Matt,

 

You are correct in saying that the ex-SNCF mineral wagons were banned from carrying P. Way materials, as a result of an open door being struck by a passing train at a track laying worksite. I believe that this incident occurred in or around 1962 and henceforth the wagons were branded "Not to be used for PW ballast or other engineers materials".

 

I would be interested to know if I have the date of 1962 correct. I model the 1950's era, so my ex-SNCF wagons are consequently not branded as above.

 

Regards,

 

Martin Allen 

[Invicta]

The John Hayes '4mm Coal Wagon' book (Wild Swan) includes the Parkside kit as an example of a kit-build, and there's a prototype picture showing a couple in a rake of ex-PO wagons- the caption suggests they were unpopular because of a number of accidents caused by doors coming open- the date is given as circa 1960, which fits well with that 1962 date Martin suggests. The 'Not to be used for PW ballast' branding is visible on both wagons.

 

A definite fix on the date the branding came into use would be useful if anyone can confirm it- I built one as part of my generic 1950's/60's set of mineral wagons a few years back and included it, but if it did first appear around '62 and they were gone by '66 according to the note with Paul Bartlett's photos, then the use of the 'PW ballast' branding is restricted to a fairly short period, and I probably ought to have left it off...

[Fat Controller]

I've been rummaging in the attics of my mind as to where I'd seen one in BR use; it would be in the late 1960s/early 1970s, and it had been 'rough-shunted' off the slag-bank that served as the reserve scrap heap at Llanelly Steel Works (later Duports). It had presumably worked in loaded with scrap, and been pushed a bit too far by an enthusiastic shunter. It was presumably cut up on site.

[brianthesnail96]

Cheers folks, I reckon that's justification enough for me to put mine to alternative uses. BT&S is supposed to be early to mid 60's so the addition of the "Not to be used for PW ballast" branding would fix the time period nicely.