andyman7 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 The subject of Hornby's Exeter has been debated to death elsewhere on RMWeb, but I've started this thread to explore the topic of the inadvertent Limited Edition. This isn't about carpetbagging or profiteering but it is about the interest and intrigue that and item such as this engender among collectors/ enthusiasts of a brand. It is clear that, if, in 20 years, someone decides to try and collect examples of every Hornby super detail WC/BoB loco made, R3115 Exeter will probably be the holy grail, just as Bude or Wilton will probably be the low hanging fruit. The fun aspect is precisely that it was never intended to be a 'Limited Edition'. I've always found the concept of the certificated Limited Edition, sold with all the faux promise of exclusivity, rather vapid. Yes, I own a few, but only if I like the subject matter, and quite frankly a plinth and/or certificate have always to my mind diminished rather than augmented a model's appeal. Anyhow, before opening up the floor to any other thoughts, I thought I'd flag up other models that were never issued as Limited Editions but which history has revealed to be very hard to find indeed. The obvious candidates are the late Wrenn models. Wrenn jumped on the Limited Edition bandwagon in their latter years issuing a number of certificated models, but when the music stopped in 1992 and Basildon production ended, it gradually emerged that many of the regular catalogue items from the later years were ordered in such tiny numbers that in many cases they were much, much rarer than the certificated models. I've got the Wrenn book, and there are models with production figures in single or low double figures! This means nowadays that a properly described Wrenn model will ascribe the period of manufacture (as evidenced by production and box features) as it makes a huge difference to it's collectability. Another very rare model (albeit not particularly pricey) is the Triang-Hornby R150NS British Railways black B12 with Sychrosmoke and Exhaust Steam Sound. Now the regular B12 is not particularly hard to find at all, but, as Triang-Hornby collectors will know, the years 1969-70 saw a mass dash from British Railways livery to pre-nationalisation colours on the back of the success of the R855 LNER Flying Scotsman. This coincided with the introduction of features such as glossy bodies, plated wheels and the 'Exhaust Steam Sound' (that rather entertaining sound box built into steam loco tenders). The result is a classic breeding ground for the 'inadvertent limited edition', where a model about to be superseded and selling slowly acquires unique features as part of a very short production run. The B12, in 1970, was reissued as R866NS in LNER green, marketed alongside the remaining (and presumably slow-selling) stock of the R150S BR version. By 1971 it appears that the decision was made to clear this stock by putting the BR version in a train set, RS.606 'Express Goods', but to augment the play value, the models in store were taken out and had their tender underframes removed and replaced with the new 'Exhaust Steam Sound' feature. This means that the BR black B12 with the steam sound feature is quite hard to find, but what is most interesting is that, in addition to the set, under a hundred locos ended up getting set out in individual boxes. This was the period when Triang were in receivership and it is possible that this was part of an effort to engender cash flow by getting as much stock out on sale as possible. Anyhow, the individually boxed R150NS B12s come in proper 1971 style tray type boxes with correctly printed 'R150NS' end labels, so they are distinctly different from the earlier releases - and they are incredibly rare...... So, are there any other good stories out there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 There are several Dublo variants or varying rarity/value - GWR cattle trucks with BR stampings, LNER coaches with grey roofs (only all thirds AFAIK and easy enough to 'forge'), the early mineral wagon with transfers for tare and number/load swopped etc. some colours of early Tri-ang wagons etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 There are several Hornsby 0-4-0 Holdens that have a surprisingly low production run number and although not valuable, will in time be hard to get. The orange Terry is less than 1200! And if anyone has a good spare Triang closed wagon in Caramac they don't want..... . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I must have an orange Terry body somewhere I bought for spares..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 There are several Hornsby 0-4-0 Holdens that have a surprisingly low production run number and although not valuable, will in time be hard to get. The orange Terry is less than 1200! And if anyone has a good spare Triang closed wagon in Caramac they don't want..... . Yes, in 1983 as Hornby was struggling to survive, they made a large range of small cheap 0-4-0 locos that presumably could be sold at budget prices, using the Holden, Caley and other moulds that they had. The production numbers for quite a few of the individual locos was very small, and as the market was younger children there are very few around in good boxed condition. One of the range was a little black loco called Smokey Joe which has eclipsed all the others to become the single longest selling loco in the entire Triang/Hornby history, having featured now in every catalogue bar one since 1983. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 . I think the "original" Tri-ang 0-4-0T "NELLIE" in blue must rank high in total numbers - she was on sale for a long time when "train sets" were very popular, whilst her sisters in red (Polly ?) and yellow (Connie ?) must be rather rarer . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 . I think the "original" Tri-ang 0-4-0T "NELLIE" in blue must rank high in total numbers - she was on sale for a long time when "train sets" were very popular, whilst her sisters in red (Polly ?) and yellow (Connie ?) must be rather rarer . There are rarer versions of these with the colours switched around I believe*. Other rarer versions of starter models are the 'steeple cab' and 'dock shunter' in red and yellow respectively in 'Transcontinental' versions. *Less rare, now that replacement names are available.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The original R.355 "Nellie" was followed by a blue "Connie" (Later the yellow loco name). The bodies being the same except for the heat printed number, there are several Nellies with Connie number out there, and the other way around too. Then Polly in Red, and Connie became Yellow.... It seems that roughly equal numbers of the 3 colours, Nellie Blue, Polly Red, and Connie Yellow were made. The Yellow Connie seems to command a higher price though.... Nellie was famous as the loco from the RS23 train set....the "starter set" of the 1960s..... The rarer Nellie types are the black moulded plastic ones from the Primary Series.....there are at least 3 variations of these alone! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 As a collector of several recent Hornby series of engines I am intrigued by the rarity of some, and can say without a shadow of doubt that the most rare will be the ones I sell first! Also I bought several Heljan Garratts (I so like them) and suspect that there were one or two variants which were produced in very low numbers (not the so-called heavily weathered versions though!) There is pleasure in the ownership of a very rare model, and/or a complete series of models, certainly. An interesting thread, thank you. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Surely the Bachmann C class 592 falls into this category? Whilst it cost a little more than the other variants, this was due to the increased production costs for the paint job, rather than an intentional limited edition. I'm sure Bachmann expected them to sell well, but I doubt they expected them to be sold for £300-400 a year after their release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 There is a version of the Hornby Dublo N2 in GWR green that inadvertently ended up with the number from Duchess of Atholl ('6231'?) instead of the normal '6699'. I think only something like five have been verified as still existing. I suspect that the Bachmann C class in fully lined SECR livery had only 504 made - the same as many Bachmann limited editions. It proved far more popular than they thought though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Rarity appears not to equal high prices, last night. I bid on an Ebay King Arthur , N15 SR 751 'Etarre' which is not a common model, and while there was an early first bid already in at $66-ish. Reliable seller. NOBODY ELSE made a bid but me, it became mine for $67. As new, still in box, tissue, etc. I personally think the N15 is a top-class series of models, and Etarre is quite rare so far as I know, 1 year of production 2008, the SR and/or Urie variants presumably slow sellers? Well pleased anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Just being rare doesn't make something valuable, it has to be sought after too. For example Farish and Trackmaster wagons aren't very common, but still only go for a pound or two and there are still vast numbers of Dinky Toys and Matchbox about, but even rough ones usually command relatively high prices*, because they are highly collectable. (A larger fan base than trains it would appear - I can't think why?! ) *I have bought a few 29c/290 double deck buses for a few pounds (the last one came from a box full at £2 each - free of paint ready for restoration). Perfect for the Dublo station forecourt! I still need a luxury coach, but they seem to be a lot rarer and hence dearer (£10 for a very poor repaint seen recently is not on Grifone's wavelength). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I remember buying a few Dinky buses in th 80`s & they commanded quite high prices,about £10 each if i recall correctly & they had broken mudguards,easily repaired with plasticene over the wheel & Plastic padding laid on to shape,& needed a full repaint.I`m still trying to work out how Meccano managed to spray them without getting red or green overspray in the interior. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Interestingly, prices for DInky buses are definitely lower now than 20 - 30 years ago; certainly in real terms and in some cases in actual terms. This I would ascribe to the greater proportion of models originally sold for use on model railways or to bus collectors that didn't therefore get the playwear of other items coupled with the sad but inevitable demise of may original collectors now pushing more of these models back on the market than the current collecting community demands. The exception for 50s issues is where an example is in exceptional mint condition - but the 1970s Atlantean can be got for under £15 a time perfect mint boxed, and I've seen excellent unboxed ones struggle to fetch £3 or so. The upshot is I'm actually collecting 29c/290/291 variations as and when I can get good examples cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Interestingly, prices for DInky buses are definitely lower now than 20 - 30 years ago; certainly in real terms and in some cases in actual terms. This I would ascribe to the greater proportion of models originally sold for use on model railways or to bus collectors that didn't therefore get the playwear of other items coupled with the sad but inevitable demise of may original collectors now pushing more of these models back on the market than the current collecting community demands. The exception for 50s issues is where an example is in exceptional mint condition - but the 1970s Atlantean can be got for under £15 a time perfect mint boxed, and I've seen excellent unboxed ones struggle to fetch £3 or so. The upshot is I'm actually collecting 29c/290/291 variations as and when I can get good examples cheap. It`s not only dinkies that seem to have fallen in price,looking at Ebay,Hornby Dublo can be got a lot cheaper than in the 80`s & 90`s.There also seems to be a lot more buy it now as well. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 777 There certainly seems to be a dip in Dinky prices. At the toyfair I went to on Sunday, there were several at £2 (Play worn of course, but restorable) and some quite reasonable repaints for £5. A few years ago these would have been much more expensive. A Dublo D11 BR(E) brake/third and a Tri-ang blue TC Vista-Dome came home with me for £1 each (both in decent 'running' condition though the Tri-ang coach's wheels require replacement). The rarer items seem to have held their value however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 It`s not only dinkies that seem to have fallen in price,looking at Ebay,Hornby Dublo can be got a lot cheaper than in the 80`s & 90`s.There also seems to be a lot more buy it now as well. Ray. With Ebays current "Free 20 listings a month", it can pay to go for Buy It Now listings, as these are listed for 30 days each, as against 10 days for a straight "Auction" listing. The best bet is a slightly high "BIN" price, and accept offers! (Ebay "Best Offer") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The rarer Nellie types are the black moulded plastic ones from the Primary Series.....there are at least 3 variations of these alone! Gostude has a couple of the mainstream black 0-4-0's for sale on ebay (but I won't mention the prices) This is the one I have. It is a primary series one, having non painted buffer beams and no BR decals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yes, all the Black moulded "Nellies" are from the Primary Series... The earliest have the early BR crest heat printed in gold, like the early princess tenders...wit red-painted buffer beams. Then there is the BR llate Crest transfer and red buffer beams (The transfers can "go missing" with wear...). The final versions lack the red painted buffer beams....some may also not have been transfered, though the transfers can "go missing" with wear.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I bought a load of Dinky buses at a fair in 1971 for 10/- each and sold them the next day at Stratford on Avon bus rally the next day for £5 each. All proceeds went toward restoring my GS bus which I still have today! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 I bought a load of Dinky buses at a fair in 1971 for 10/- each and sold them the next day at Stratford on Avon bus rally the next day for £5 each. All proceeds went toward restoring my GS bus which I still have today! £5 in 1971 is equivalent to £63.10 now using the BoE inflation calculator - unless you are talking pre-war models or absolutely mint perfect 1950s examples, they're worth less in 2015! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 734 The going price for a mint boxed Dinky 29c/290 bus seems to be around £60 (poor ones around 10% of this or less Allowing £10-20 for the box). The earlier buses were were sold in bulk* boxes so boxed examples are rare (and costly as you need to buy lots of buses). This is rather a lot as better models are available, though they are are ideal for Dublo station forecourts of course. * I can't remember if dozens or half dozens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 734 The going price for a mint boxed Dinky 29c/290 bus seems to be around £60 (poor ones around 10% of this or less Allowing £10-20 for the box). The earlier buses were were sold in bulk* boxes so boxed examples are rare (and costly as you need to buy lots of buses). This is rather a lot as better models are available, though they are are ideal for Dublo station forecourts of course. * I can't remember if dozens or half dozens. It was a half dozen in a trade box, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Memories eh!,i remember putting an old dark grey banket on the dining table & chalking roadways onto it & using the buses on routes round the table,this would be in the early 1950`s as a child. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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