Kirkby Luneside

[Physicsman]

After all the frenetic discussion re. wheels and wagons yesterday, it's been a quieter day.

 

I WILL buy some Gibson wheels for a number of future wagons - quite reasonably priced for the quality.

 

I've done a bit of ballast practice on the test rig. Partly happy, partly not - technique needs refining. Pics when something worth showing is available.

 

Jeff

[Andrew P]

Jeff, I hope you won't think me to hypocritical, but despite my comments re the Wills Point Rodding, I really couldn't find anything more suitable, as I didn't want to go down the Brass Route, so today I have purchased a pack to use on Trewithen.

 

I'm watching with interest you wagon conversions and looking forward to seeing some Long Freight Videos behind the 24 when you get home..

[Physicsman]

Jeff, I hope you won't think me to hypocritical, but despite my comments re the Wills Point Rodding, I really couldn't find anything more suitable, as I didn't want to go down the Brass Route, so today I have purchased a pack to use on Trewithen.

 

I'm watching with interest you wagon conversions and looking forward to seeing some Long Freight Videos behind the 24 when you get home..

 

Andy, you aren't being hypocritical as you were just giving an honest opinion about the Wills stuff. I bought a pack and I have to agree with the concensus view that it's a little overscale - but still looks good if fitted properly - as in Mike's pic and by Tender.

 

I'd have been very happy to use the stuff, but I'm up for any number of new challenges on KL2. I don't want to feel I didn't "have a go", hene the decision to go brass - even if I've never done anything like that before. It's the same with the EM conversions, wall building, static grass, 3-links etc etc. I just want to try and push things and see how they work out.

 

So best of luck with the Wills kit!

 

As for vids - provided I can attach a wagon to the 24, then I can make up the rest of the train with the tension locks for now. I'll see what I can do when I get home at the start of next week.

 

Jeff

[67A]

Hi Jeff and Andy,

 

Whilst you both are considering the Wills point rodding I think it would help if I advised you that the instructions call for a 'butt' joint, well in my opinion a 1mm x 1mm face end joint was just asking for problems therefore before I started any installation I placed a .010" styrene strip to the underside of one end of each then mounted the next one to it to give the whole thing a bit more durability, I also glued about 10mm of the fret to the underside of the rollers and drilled holes and inserted the assembly to the baseboard again to give more durability.

 

I'm still trying to find those illusive pic's, I may have deleted them Jeff.

[Andrew P]

Thanks for the tip Mike, I'm also thinking of cutting the ends of the rods at 45 degrees so that there is some support for one on top of the other.

[Physicsman]

Thanks for the advice, Mike.

 

I'm actually going to go via the brass route, so I'll be reporting on that once I get started.

 

Thanks for looking for the old pics.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Update: I've been playing around with dilute grey acrylic washes for weathering ballast - especially on the main line. I've hit upon a formula that's not too light and not too dark, and I'm pleased with the result.

 

I'll wait until everything on the test board has dried - as colour generally lightens - and post a pic. Probably tomorrow morning.

 

Nothing earth-shattering, but worth chucking on here!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

The colour of the ballast at Kirkby Stephen can be very variable and, of course, depends on the light levels and weather conditions. I've looked at a lot of photos and gone for the "grey look", rather than the reddish-pink which sometimes shows. Here's a couple of (not-very-good) pics of the real thing:

 

 

 

I want some grot on the main line, but I don't want it too dirty. Here's the result of playing around - a medium grot, which doesn't show as well in the images as in real life!

 

 

 

 

The ballast is WS fine grey blend, a small pile of which is sat at the end of each rail to allow a comparison with the painted ballast.

 

Jeff

 

 

[67A]

I used a mix of cold tea and coffee to grot the ballast on the main line, in the the sidings I used a mix of grey, black, brown and green flock for a more compact look as the sidings rarely see any re-ballasting. 

[Physicsman]

I used a mix of cold tea and coffee to grot the ballast on the main line, in the the sidings I used a mix of grey, black, brown and green flock for a more compact look as the sidings rarely see any re-ballasting. 

 

Thanks for the info, Mike. I'll try a few more concoctions before any ballast goes down. It's fun and it does no harm, using surplus bit of track. If you took 100 layouts you'd see a different ballast approach/appearance on each.

 

Agree about the sidings - mine will be clogged-up and show signs of disuse/additional grot. Something I would never have dreamed of doing in the far-off days of the "keep everything clean" on my layouts attitude.

 

Jeff

Edited March 10, 2017 by Physicsman

[Reorte]

The colour of the ballast has given me all sorts of nightmares, I keep changing my mind on what it should be (probably due to various pictures giving various different impressions as it gets reballasted with stone from different quarries).

[Physicsman]

The colour of the ballast has given me all sorts of nightmares, I keep changing my mind on what it should be (probably due to various pictures giving various different impressions as it gets reballasted with stone from different quarries).

 

Yes Simon, totally agree with you there. The pinky coloured stuff is quite attractive, but so is the dirty grey! And if you look at 20 pictures taken over a period of time you'll always find it looks different, as you say.

 

So my philosophy is that as long as it looks neat and tidy, is the proper grade (2mm for me), has appropriate grot (not too heavy as it's not a heavily used line) and has a clear cess, neat ballast shoulder etc., then that's fine. As Mike and Jason have both pointed out, a lot of the sidings might not have been ballasted for donkey's years, so they can be grotted with fine sand and have intermittent filth and a bit of grass (just a few clumps) chucked in.

 

The appearance of MY ballasting is always one of those things I'm NEVER happy with!!

 

Jeff

 

Edit: sorry for the delayed reply - I've just been out for a 6 mile walk in the delightful Cumbrian drizzle!

Edited March 10, 2017 by Physicsman

[lanchester]

Yes Simon, totally agree with you there. The pinky coloured stuff is quite attractive, but so is the dirty grey! And if you look at 20 pictures taken over a period of time you'll always find it looks different, as you say.

 

So my philosophy is that as long as it looks neat and tidy, is the proper grade (2mm for me), has appropriate grot (not too heavy as it's not a heavily used line) and has a clear cess, neat ballast shoulder etc., then that's fine. As Mike and Jason have both pointed out, a lot of the sidings might not have been ballasted for donkey's years, so they can be grotted with fine sand and have intermittent filth and a bit of grass (just a few clumps) chucked in.

 

The appearance of MY ballasting is always one of those things I'm NEVER happy with!!

 

Jeff

 

Edit: sorry for the delayed reply - I've just been out for a 6 mile walk in the delightful Cumbrian drizzle!

The 'pinky stuff' would I assume be Shap granite - a good material and quite local except that it is on the wrong railway! My impression is that it stayed the characteristic colour, rather than going into nondescript 'brake dust and effluent' tones, longer being pretty non-porous and so sort of self-cleaning. So a stretch of distinctly pink ballast would be entirely prototypical, but look a bit strange - as indeed it did in real life!

[Physicsman]

The 'pinky stuff' would I assume be Shap granite - a good material and quite local except that it is on the wrong railway! My impression is that it stayed the characteristic colour, rather than going into nondescript 'brake dust and effluent' tones, longer being pretty non-porous and so sort of self-cleaning. So a stretch of distinctly pink ballast would be entirely prototypical, but look a bit strange - as indeed it did in real life!

 

Here's an example from June 2001. Looks like a batch of Shap granite has been dumped onto the Down line and its surroundings....

 

 

Jeff

[67A]

Hi Jeff,

 

Have a look at post 4066 in Dent, I hadn't realised the loco was directly over the point rodding running under 3 tracks, and yes I had to gouge out the ballast cos I'm not as clever as you to think of doing it first, gives you an idea at any rate mate.

 

Edit typo.

Edited March 10, 2017 by mike61680

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

 

Have a look at post 4066 in Dent, I hadn't realised the loco was directly over the point rodding running under 3 tracks, and yes I had to gouge out the ballast cos I'm not as clever as you to think of doing it first, gives you an idea at any rate mate.

 

Edit typo.

 

Mike, if a "certain person" hadn't reminded me - at an opportune time - to consider sorting the point rodding, I suspect I'd also have been "gouging out the ballast"!!

 

Point rodding was on my "to do" list, but had receded to the back of my thoughts as I thought about getting some ballast down.

 

I may need to do a bit of digging in places, to ensure brass rodding passing under the track doesn't short the rails. Hopefully, a coat of paint on the rodding might be an effective insulator.

 

Thanks for the reference - I'll go to Dent and have a look.

 

Jeff

[Reorte]

I may need to do a bit of digging in places, to ensure brass rodding passing under the track doesn't short the rails. Hopefully, a coat of paint on the rodding might be an effective insulator.

Square section plastic strip might be the answer there. Once painted it probably won't look any different. It'll probably be too delicate and bendy for the main runs but should be fine across the track.

[Physicsman]

Square section plastic strip might be the answer there. Once painted it probably won't look any different. It'll probably be too delicate and bendy for the main runs but should be fine across the track.

Good idea. AndyP suggested (yesterday) that maybe I should use the Wills rodding for the undertrack sections.

 

Either way, if the brass rods cause problems, then there's always the plastic option to fall back on.

 

It shouldn't be too long before I get round to trying something.

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

Which reminds me...... if you have joined the EM Gauge Society yet (and you should do), the manual (online now, as well as being sent on a CD and in print if required) has a section on using Brassmasters point rodding, stools, etc. Not only how to use it but also notes in the prototype. The stores don't sell it but they do sell a lot of useful stuff, including Gibson wheels, cheaper than the link I sent you on Wednesday.

[Physicsman]

Which reminds me...... if you have joined the EM Gauge Society yet (and you should do), the manual (online now, as well as being sent on a CD and in print if required) has a section on using Brassmasters point rodding, stools, etc. Not only how to use it but also notes in the prototype. The stores don't sell it but they do sell a lot of useful stuff, including Gibson wheels, cheaper than the link I sent you on Wednesday.

 

Agree entirely, Jason, I need to get my ar*e in gear and join the EMGS. I'm not avoiding it, it just keeps slipping from my mind.

 

Keep nagging me about this, please.

 

Jeff

 

Edit: PM on the way....

Edited March 10, 2017 by Physicsman

[Jason T]

nag nag nag; join the society!

 

http://www.emgs.org/join/

[aberdare]

nag nag nag; join the society!

 

http://www.emgs.org/join/

 

I wish I'd had someone to nag me when I was seriously thinking about it, instead I had my old man accusing me of becoming one of them 'rivet counters'

 

All looking good Jeff and I'm still quietly keeping an eye on things.

 

Jim

[Physicsman]

I wish I'd had someone to nag me when I was seriously thinking about it, instead I had my old man accusing me of becoming one of them 'rivet counters'

 

All looking good Jeff and I'm still quietly keeping an eye on things.

 

Jim

 

There can often be so many things going on that it's easy to forget to get important tasks done. A case in point today. Dad was reading a paper and mentioned about some "new" Bowie albums. That reminded me to sort my order for the forthcoming Bowie stamp issues. Close shave for the FDCs - they are out next Tuesday. Sorted. Again, something I've been meaning to do for ages....

 

It's a shame your dad nagged you about EM. I'm as far from a rivet counter as it's possible to get and I get very annoyed when anyone implies that making something look closer to reality is somehow wrong. Perverse logic. If everyone got on with their own projects at a level that made them happy and kept their biased opinions to themselves, things would be a lot better. Each to their own.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Still in Barrow and still playing around with wagons and track. Here's a couple of pics showing a longer section of the test board. To the naked eye there's a nice variation in grey within the track ballast. Doesn't show too well on the pics. I'll show them anyway!

 

 

 

Jeff

[Reorte]

It's a shame your dad nagged you about EM. I'm as far from a rivet counter as it's possible to get and I get very annoyed when anyone implies that making something look closer to reality is somehow wrong. Perverse logic. If everyone got on with their own projects at a level that made them happy and kept their biased opinions to themselves, things would be a lot better. Each to their own.

That's a touchy one, as is well illustrated by all the arguments over the years. If I've got the wrong number of rivets I think I'd appreciate a rivet counter pointing out the correct number - as long as he doesn't keep that up. I like to get things as right as I can but I have my limits on how far I'm prepared to go. Just don't cross those limits once they've been pointed out, whether those limits are "I'm happy with Thomas" or "I don't want any inaccuracies even if you'd need an electron microscope to see them".