Titan Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 As to the most recent developments- suffice to say that I found myself identifying with Douglas Adams' bowl of petunias.. Oh no, not again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2015 Brian, I try to be up there about 8.00am and out by just after 9.00am so miss the school run etc...... but if its frosty start to the day may be there later.... Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Brian, I try to be up there about 8.00am and out by just after 9.00am so miss the school run etc...... but if its frosty start to the day may be there later.... Keith I'm not going through 'til after lunch- got to wait for Brian the Post.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 A bit of local chat then, lucky we have a new village store at Aldington! Does a nice cooked breakfast in the tea room at the back so I've heard.... Radio Kent reporting the M20 closed as far back as the Snodland junction with parked lorries, and a waiting time of 8 hours for lorries! Maybe the original Eurotunnel safety case thinking was a bit naïve; fire on train, spilt train, non-burning bit carries on or goes in opposite direction. Wonderful except electric trains need....electric. What goes off when there's a fire? Electric! What's the first thing that melts after the lorry and the train roof? The OHLE. Ermmm, am I missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have a couple of books on the Channel Tunnel, unfortunately the books are on the other side of the Channel from me at the moment! The original safety design is well documented in them and as far as I can remember a lot of the evacuation protocol relies on the third tunnel which can remove people but not trains or freight. I also think that there are (were?) diesels available to rescue a train but I doubt this would work while a fire is in progress. This is not something I like to think about when traveling through the tunnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It has been noted on another forum that in its final years the bus was normally running empty save the odd couple of ferry crew personnel going on or off duty (who didn't pay) You also have to remember that the ONLY ferry company still accepting foot passengers at Dover are P&O (who also ran the shuttle bus). None of the other two (DFDS and MFL) have ever shown any inclination to allow them on board (though I believe Sea France as the successor to the railways Sealink operation did take foot passengers until the folded) and it wouldn't surprise me for P&O to follow suit in a few years. The port of Dover would like it too because they could get rid of those large dedicated passenger only loading ramps, plus what remains of the traditional foot passenger terminal could be got rid of. However if you really do want to still cross the channel by train and ferry, there are buses that stop close to the Priory station which do still go via the Eastern docks. See http://www.stagecoachbus.com/dover-town-network-map.aspx By the time we came back to Dover the last bus had long gone, but its only £6 for a taxi between station and port or v/v. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I have a couple of books on the Channel Tunnel, unfortunately the books are on the other side of the Channel from me at the moment! The original safety design is well documented in them and as far as I can remember a lot of the evacuation protocol relies on the third tunnel which can remove people but not trains or freight. I also think that there are (were?) diesels available to rescue a train but I doubt this would work while a fire is in progress. This is not something I like to think about when traveling through the tunnel. The 'uncouple and drive off' policy was abandoned after the first fire; everything is now predicated on using the Service Tunnel, and evacuating passengers via that. There are diesels available to haul out immobilised trains but, in the event of a fire, the train is subject to the authority of the Emergency Services hierarchy, and cannot be moved without their authorisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is it preferred, where possible, to evacuate people into another train in the opposite running tunnel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is it preferred, where possible, to evacuate people into another train in the opposite running tunnel? It is normal to evacuate to the Service Tunnel, and then decide whence to move the passengers afterwards. This would depend on several factors, including the number of passengers involved; a small number could be moved using the purpose built Service Tunnel Transport System vehicles. A larger number would require a train to be stopped in the opposite running tunnel, as has been done in the past with failed Eurostars. Whether this train would be a normal service train, or a designated evacuation service, would depend on specific conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm not surprised the uncouple and evacuate process was abandoned! Whoever thought of it in the first place? Yes, I was on a train hauled out by "the diesels" last year when we were stuck on as shuttle with brake failure for over 4 hours (see separate thread). Operation stack still in place on the M20 today, stretching back to junction 4 when I last heard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Glad to hear Operation Stack finally lifted by yesterday; did ET find out what the ongoing electrical fault was that extended the original delay caused by the fire? Radio Kent reported that staff were having to inspect 10 miles of OLE by fingertip search to find the fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Glad to hear Operation Stack finally lifted by yesterday; did ET find out what the ongoing electrical fault was that extended the original delay caused by the fire? Radio Kent reported that staff were having to inspect 10 miles of OLE by fingertip search to find the fault. The electrical fault was detected very quickly; the 'fingertip search' was to make sure that something similar wouldn't happen elsewhere. I can say no more than that. I had a heart-stopping moment when I saw the BBC News- Kent web page; there was a headline saying 'Tunnel closed by flooding'; only when opening it did I find it was the Thameslink one.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 RAIB are investigating along with the Bureau d’Enquetes sur les Accidents de Transport Terrestre (BEA-TT) (snappy title) http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/150117_channel_tunnel.cfm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I see the RAIB interim report has been published. the original cause of the lorry catching fire was arcing from the OHLE. (speculate lorry radio ariel too high?). Circuit breakers re-set, train continues, only to trip the breakers again with a further short circuit, by which time the fire has taken hold and the train has passed the second safety area where the sprinklers could have been deployed. If I could find the link I'd post it, but my email system deleted it! Ha, just found the link but the computer won't let me copy it.: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I see the RAIB interim report has been published. the original cause of the lorry catching fire was arcing from the OHLE. (speculate lorry radio ariel too high?). Circuit breakers re-set, train continues, only to trip the breakers again with a further short circuit, by which time the fire has taken hold and the train has passed the second safety area where the sprinklers could have been deployed. If I could find the link I'd post it, but my email system deleted it! Ha, just found the link but the computer won't let me copy it.: Is this the link you mean? http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/150117_channel_tunnel_update.cfm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Are the enclosed lorry vehicles high enough to fit in full height lorries? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweedy Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The key issue with enclosing the wagons for HGV vehicles is that the mass of the HGV and an enclosed wagon exceeds the load capacity of 2 axle bogies as currently fitted. None of the enclosed wagons can carry a fully laden HGV for this reason irrespective of whether the HGV can fit through. They are aimed at non-HGV traffic (single deck for coaches, vans, caravans etc. and double deck for cars. Presently HGV drivers are not permitted to travel in their vehicles for safety reasons and must travel in a special carriage at one end of the train, being ferried from their HGV's to the carriage. Using a 3 axle bogie would increase the carrying capacity but would probably significantly increase track wear, especially in the terminal areas, particularly the Folkestone loop which is quite a tight radius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Might stop random over-height bits of lorries getting too near the wires tho... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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