Bachmann 009 Skarloey Railway range

[bécasse]

The restriction applies to the tooling itself, which as a physical product rather than an intellectual right is subject to whatever contractual restrictions are agreed on. The gentleman I spoke to on the Bachmann stand was not hopeful that we would see any TR painted models adapted from the Thomas range.

 

the situation is summed up by saying that if Bachmann produce Talyllyn using THAT tooling then they would lose the right to make Skarloey. As a member of the thomas range, that it guaranteed to cut their sales of the model considerably. In a choice between the two, economics will ensure Skarloey wins all of the time.

 

 

I understand that, and I certainly understand the gentleman on the Bachmann stand saying that you were unlikely to see any TR painted models adapted from the Thomas range, after all he had to say that.

 

However, and given that cost of making new tools has become dramatically reduced compared with the bad old days (just look at all the variations produced on short-run models), Bachmann could clearly and economically produce a set of new tools to produce Talyllyn, after it is a small model and some new tools would have been required anyway, and, most importantly, Bachmann have already done almost all the development work on making the tools and that is the expensive bit these days, the computer can do much of the design work but it can't do it all. Even better, they have probably now got a good idea of the market size for such a model and for possible extensions to a range, Sir Hadyn, for example.

 

The Thomas brand owners might sabre-rattle a bit, as is their won't, but they would be on very dangerous ground pursuing it further, losing a European court case could seriously undermine the return that they get from the brand. Remember it isn't just IPRs at stake, the agreements that they currently enforce cut across the single market and highly-paid international lawyer friends in Bruxelles tell me that neither the Commission nor the courts look at all favourably on such agreements - which is probably why Skarloey does in fact seem to be reasonably readily available in the UK.

[BernardTPM]

New tooling would have been likely anyway given that if they did Talyllyn they'd probably want to have separate handrails, see-through and, most likely, glazed, cab windows, cab interior detailing, etc. rather than low relief markings and blank areas on cast parts, etc. It would mean a Talyllyn model would be dearer than a Skarloey, of course to reflect that. Mind you, Skarloey has been available at around the cost (or just under) of a Minitrains H0e/009 loco and a lot of people seem to have quite enjoyed doing the conversions. There is a 009 kit of Talyllyn, but it needs an Ibertren Cuckoo chassis that has been out of production about 20 years and doesn't run as well.

[rockershovel]

Remarkable progress in RTR OO9 these days. I wouldn't have believed even ten years ago, that effectively, open cab designs running to such standards could have been produced at train set prices, or open cab Kerr Stuart Wrens produced as kits using commercially available motors

Edited March 26, 2016 by rockershovel

[rue_d_etropal]

Modifying the model as it is not beyond average modelling skill, and therefore better all round as is. Did I not read that the cab was a separate piece, so a new cab with detail could easily be produced like the other 3d printed parts. Bachmann know people use their models as basis for others, and might actually build in features to make them more attractive for this. The Underground Ernie range was DCC ready, which some marketing person might have seen as a potential bonus, but I think main reason was that one of the team involved saw the potential as they were a DCC narrow gauge modeller. Sadly the person is no longer around to ask.

The original Bachmann Thomas and Percy locos were also released as 'proper' locos, so obviously no legal problems there. They were part of first DCC set, which I tried out. Neither were that well designed as chassis and body could not be split easily. Bachmann then went on to produce the much better designed, but still very basic saddle tank and diesel locos in their Junior range.

not sure if it has been mentioned but I did notice a second OO9 loco in Bachmann USA catalogue.

Edited March 28, 2016 by rue_d_etropal

[PaulRhB]

.

The Underground Ernie range was DCC ready, which some marketing person might have seen as a potential bonus, but I think main reason was that one of the team involved saw the potential as they were a DCC narrow gauge modeller. Sadly the person is no longer around to ask.

.

The underground Ernie was a UK range and I assume you're referring to Lee Riley in the US who was behind the On30 range so I don't think he'd have had anything to do with it?

 

.

not sure if it has been mentioned but I did notice a second OO9 loco in Bachmann USA catalogue.

Rheneas is mentioned a couple of pages ago on this thread. Edited March 29, 2016 by PaulRhB

[Edge]

The original Bachmann Thomas and Percy locos were also released as 'proper' locos, so obviously no legal problems there. They were part of first DCC set, which I tried out. Neither were that well designed as chassis and body could not be split easily. Bachmann then went on to produce the much better designed, but still very basic saddle tank and diesel locos in their Junior range.

not sure if it has been mentioned but I did notice a second OO9 loco in Bachmann USA catalogue.

Actually there were legal problems. Neither engine is allowed to be sold by Bachmann in the UK anymore as it was judged that they were infringing upon Hornby's licence for Thomas related products in the UK

[Butler Henderson]

The original Bachmann Thomas and Percy locos were also released as 'proper' locos, so obviously no legal problems there. They were part of first DCC set, which I tried out. Neither were that well designed as chassis and body could not be split easily. Bachmann then went on to produce the much better designed, but still very basic saddle tank and diesel locos in their Junior range.

Bachmann did breach the licensing agreement with that original DCC set hence the development of the 0-6-0ST and 0-6-0D.

[RJS1977]

Just a thought...

 

What if Hornby and Bachmann were to come to an 'arrangement' whereby Hornby were to distribute Bachmann Skarloeys (and potentially Talyllyns) in the UK? Bachmann sell more units, Hornby take a cut of the profits and the models become more easily available. Wins all round!

[Bomp]

Here's my one finished above the footplate.

 

Handrails may follow but I was a little impatient.

[daniel11]

Bomp has done a fantastic job on the lined green! To make the job a little easier for those who would like to do the same livery lining decals for the green livery are now available from :

 

http://www.dtbmodels.ml/product/tal003

 

The price is £5 plus £1.50 P&P.

Edited April 1, 2016 by daniel11

[Bomp]

Now you tell me! 

 

For future reference, will you be doing green ones for Dolgoch in due course?  I'm aiming for a full fleet (changing Tom ROLT for a different No. 7 because I find the loco ugly despite what it represents) of 1980s green locos.

[daniel11]

Now you tell me!

 

For future reference, will you be doing green ones for Dolgoch in due course? I'm aiming for a full fleet (changing Tom ROLT for a different No. 7 because I find the loco ugly despite what it represents) of 1980s green locos.

Sorry! I've only just had them printed! But yes, hopefully I will be doing ones for the Bachmann Rheneas when it is released. I will try to do all the liveries so green will he included in that.

 

Daniel

[meil]

Not sure that's quite true as it was quite clear with the one I bought in the UK from one of those shops that there was no warranty with it. That didn't bother me but it might some people?

There is a Warranty - it's called the sale of goods act.

[daniel11]

Now you tell me! 

 

For future reference, will you be doing green ones for Dolgoch in due course?  I'm aiming for a full fleet (changing Tom ROLT for a different No. 7 because I find the loco ugly despite what it represents) of 1980s green locos.

 

If you're looking for ideas on a Tom Rolt replacement there is a thread over on NGRM about a Talyllyn might-have-been build of a Hunslet 'Eva' class. Looks very nice to my eyes!

 

http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7976-hunslet-eva-0-4-2t/page-2&do=findComment&comment=144823

[rue_d_etropal]

Just a pity you have to log in to see anything on NGRM. Sorry but to get better publicity for narrow gauge modelling make it viewable without being a member.  I have noticed number of people posting to online forums has gone down over past few years, so making it more difficult does not help.

 

On the Bachmann models, I have been told most of the Talyllyn locos were measured up. Also from what I have seen, it is not that difficult to convert them to more realistic models. Given costs these days, much better to have something that works very well at a reasonable price than nothing, and looking at prices Bachmann are charging for well detailed OO models, I think they have got it right for OO9. Peco have come up trumps as well.

I don't model OO9 at the moment, but anything narrow gauge is a good thing for the hobby. Not everyone wants to run Flying Scotsman or has the room to do it justice.

[daniel11]

I agree on the NGRM login. It is a bit of a pain, but well worth signing up in you are an NG modeller.

 

I'm interested that you most of the TR locos were measured up. Does this mean we'll be seeing more such aa Edward Thomas and Douglas added to the range? I might have to build a TR layout to house them all!

 

Do you know if they measured the rolling stock as well? Some RTR TR coaches would go down nicely.

Edited April 4, 2016 by daniel11

[andyram]

It would be no surprise, given the 009 locomotives due for release, if Bachmann had scanned all TR locos and plan to release models of them. I would certainly be planning a TR layout if this happened.

[rue_d_etropal]

Daniel, The NGRM might be worth signing up for, but i don't sign up for anything I can't see, although I think it as viewable without logging in initially. I also think to encourage more narrow gauge modelling it needs to be viewable. Then when it looks OK, and someone feels comfortable with joining they can. I also prefer to talk to more than just a relatively few people who are already narrow gauge fans. Much of what I do and talk about is useful beyond narrow gauge.

 

As for the TR locos being measured up, it has also been suggested it was not actually Bachmann.Possibly could have been a company contracted to measure up. I think the comments about licensing for molds is correct. Just been looking at the OO range, and some of those models would transfer to 'proper' models easily especially the 6 wheel, and 4 wheel coaches. Much is fom old Mainline molds,  but surprised they have not done a proper GER tram loco. Again they might not be permitted to change design, although it did not stop them with the Thomas and Percy locos.

[PaulRhB]

I think the comments about licensing for molds is correct. Just been looking at the OO range, and some of those models would transfer to 'proper' models easily especially the 6 wheel, and 4 wheel coaches. Much is fom old Mainline molds, but surprised they have not done a proper GER tram loco. Again they might not be permitted to change design, although it did not stop them with the Thomas and Percy locos.

The licensing is on the moulds, that's been confirmed by two different Bachmann sources at Ally Pally.

Not sure what in the HO/OOish range you think is from Mainline but there's no similarity in the items I've seen close up. The locos are all new mouldings and the tanks are certainly new too. From photos the open wagons look cruder than the mainline ones too.

[rue_d_etropal]

Some of the OO models definitely originate from Mainline range, eg the LMS bogie coach. Possibly either modified molds or molds which are now not suitable for proper range. This would explain crude molding on wagon. The first two locos, Thomas and Percy, were definitely modified into 'proper' locos, so no problem with licensing there. Maybe as a brand new range the OO9 ones have had all the dots dotted and t's crossed , so they can't be modified. Same might have happened for the later OO models. Just wish Hornby would drop their models, as the only one that was really of any use for 16.5mm gauge narrow gauge was the Bill/Ben chassis, which is currently not available, and the license be given to Bachmann. It is not as though the models can not be bought in UK. Only thing is Bachmann would probably then up the prices.

As modellers, we can see our way round these little problems, so rocking the boat is not necessarily a good idea.

[Paul.Uni]

Some of the OO models definitely originate from Mainline range, eg the LMS bogie coach. Possibly either modified molds or molds which are now not suitable for proper range. This would explain crude molding on wagon. The first two locos, Thomas and Percy, were definitely modified into 'proper' locos, so no problem with licensing there. Maybe as a brand new range the OO9 ones have had all the dots dotted and t's crossed , so they can't be modified. Same might have happened for the later OO models. Just wish Hornby would drop their models, as the only one that was really of any use for 16.5mm gauge narrow gauge was the Bill/Ben chassis, which is currently not available, and the license be given to Bachmann. It is not as though the models can not be bought in UK. Only thing is Bachmann would probably then up the prices.

As modellers, we can see our way round these little problems, so rocking the boat is not necessarily a good idea.

Bit in bold. As stated previously in the thread there were licensing problems after the release of the models in the UK. Hence why we never saw them again and saw the 0-6-0ST and Diesel Shunter in the Bachmann Junior range.

[rue_d_etropal]

The Bachmann Thomas derived loco did continue after the other Junior locos were introduced.It was sometimes in the Junior trainset.The new locos were far superior, but still basic and cheap, and at least you could take bodies off the chassis easily. . I think Bachmann have now dropped the Junior range.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Does anyone know of any UK suppliers with Skarloey still in stock?

[daniel11]

Does anyone know of any UK suppliers with Skarloey still in stock?

 

I don't think there are any at the moment, but more stocks are due from America soon, so you might want to email Tootally Thomas to reserve one of those.

[rue_d_etropal]

For anyone modelling OO9 the future is very bright. Bachmann have obviously realised this and with help from Peco are producing some very interesting models. Expect to see more of those so called 'rabbit warren' layouts at exhibitions, and probably comments from narrow gauge purists on that.