First Sunday in June (FSIJ) - 16mm fine scale layout construction

[Greengiant]

With the fine weather of late it was opportune to connect up all the scenic boards and parts there of to get a feel for the size of the layout.

In the pictures below, the ruler laid on the boards is a one foot rule and placed roughly where the end of Stony Shaw platform and foot crossing will be. Yet to be added is the eight foot of baseboard for the RotaYard at the far end of the layout.

 

 

 

 

Track bed on board five is now installed.

 

 

Construction of board six, the final scenic board has started. The end panel is roughed out, we have not decided on the final profile yet. The triangle of plywood is a temporary brace as the board is built. Clamped while the glue dries are the side supports for the front beam. Once dry, the base will be cut  out and a top fitted.

 

 

Despite all the planning, sometimes one of these comes in very useful during construction!

 

 

Martin

[tjf4375]

Fascinating thread - I love all the thought and attention to detail you've put into the baseboard design, it's looking great!

[Greengiant]

Now the scenic boards are well underway, attention has been paid to the RotaYard.

This is one of the early concept models.

 

 

A CAD model has been worked up to prove the functionality of the concept. There are six stock Gondolas, the system has been designed to cope with all six full up with stock.

 

 

One gondola in isolation, the red block represents one full length train.

 

 

One of the Gondola support brackets.

 

 

A fully loaded RotaYard.

 

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

Baseboard construction continues and ground form starts to make an appearance.

 

Final piece of scenic section trackbed now installed, four of the six scenic boards are in this photograph.

 

 

Using a lot of this stuff to stick down the foam.

 

 

Gorilla glue expands to three to four times its size and also acts as a filler that can be carved, sanded and painted. Sticks like the proverbial to a blanket!

 

 

What you must remember to do is make sure location dowel holes are covered at the rear!

 

 

Some of the boards with foam waiting to be stuck down.

 

 

Trunking for the wiring is also installed along with aluminium tube to hold the point rodding.

 

 

Very therapeutic shaping this with a Surform, makes it very easy, sometimes too easy.

 

 

CAD of the RotaYard main support frame.

 

 

 

This has now been welded up and ready to be used as a guide when building the plywood baseboards in which it will sit.

 

 

The RotaYard gondola supports are out being CNC'd at the moment. Plywood for the RotaYard support baseboards has been machined and now awaits assembly.

 

All of our patterns for the track plates have been cast and the brass castings have arrived. The rail which we imported from the USA has also arrived.

Cutting sleepers is the next task, then we can start sticking these in place and build the track.

 

Martin

[stadman]

Have just come across this thread, seriously impressive.

Nice to see some larger scale models with detail rather than just track screwed to a plain painted board.

Remind me to come back. 

[nick_bastable]

impressive team work and excellent baseboard planning and design I may steal a few ideas from this 

 

Nick

[Greengiant]

The final scenic board now has the foam cut ready to be glued in place.

 

 

The prototype gondola support bracket has been CNC milled from plywood and has passed all weight and stress tests.

 

 

Here shown with some stock in place to show clearances.

 

 

 

Now we can go ahead with production of the twelve supports and construct the RotaYard.

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

Construction has at last started on the final two boards of the layout, these are the ones that will be supporting the RotaYard.

The mid-joint cross pieces get quite thin at one point, this has been compensated for by beefing up some of the other surrounding structure materials.

 

This is a mid-joint cross member with all the machine done.

 

 

One element beefed up is the 3mm ply sides for the front channel, these have been upgraded to 12mm square softwood.

 

 

Then topped off with 12mm ply rather than 3mm ply.

 

 

This did involve some thinking on how to get it all clamped while the glue dried!

 

 

Now the scenic boards have the foam in place and carved to shape, some form of safer storage was needed, so to this end some old bits of Dexion came in handy to make a supporting frame for the boards.

 

 

Now the basic structure has been made for the RotaYard support boards, more detailed construction can take place using the main metal frame as a guide to where all the elements should go.

 

 

We will be welding on some adapted Spur shelving brackets for the main uprights.

 

 

Here you can see the beefed up front beam of the baseboard supports the frame full length, some softwood timber will be machined to support the full length of the rear frame. Also the CAD of the RotaYard can be seen on the laptop, which we use not only to create working drawings for the construction but also to check it will work and all clearances are sufficient.

 

 

Martin

[tjf4375]

More impressive engineering going on here, love it!

[Greengiant]

Bringing the thread up to date with a few posts on progress so far.

 

Lots of cutting and machining of timber has taken place to get 350+ sleepers.

 

 

Plus a few longer ones for certain parts of the points and switch lever mountings.

 

 

After a lot of this cutting you get a little bored and do daft things!

 

 

Those sleepers that did not make the grade were not wasted, they were used to test the strength of the glue we intend to use and have something to develop the painting and ballasting techniques.

 

Thin beads of Titebond III was first applied to a piece of scrap ply.

 

 

Sleepers were pushed into this, weights laid on top and left overnight to dry.

 

 

Next day they were attacked with a wire brush and pleased to say they all firmly stayed put.

Then some initial colouring trials were started, these pictures are of a very early stage in the colouring process.

 

 

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

Now the RotaYard progress.

 

The main construction welding is now complete and the main drive shaft bearings have been sourced.

 

 

 

An overall view of the RotaYard in position on the two supporting baseboards.

 

 

The main drive shaft should be machined to size tomorrow if all goes to plan.

 

Focus turned to the end disks which support the gondolas and provide the drive to them.

 

Mark 1 end plate.

 

 

 

Aesthetically this was not ticking the boxes for us, so back to the keyboard and revise the design.

 

Welcome Mark II.

 

 

 

This one is a lot better, having been run and 'proved' in the CAD simulation the files were sent away for water cutting in aluminium.

A few days later a package with two disks arrived. We mocked them up with a broom handle acting as a temporary drive shaft to support them.

 

 

 

The gears for the drive on this are due to be delivered early next week.

 

Here is an overall view, on the gondola are full size 16mm CAD drawings of the stock of the longest train we will be running on the layout.

 

 

To give some idea of the size of the RotaYard, I placed a 7mm standard gauge wagon on the gondola.

 

 

Once stock leaves the final scenic board it will pass onto the RotaYard support boards where before entering the RotaYard it will cross a loco size traverser. To support and guide the traverser we bought some lovely bearings and guide bars, off hand I cannot remember the correct name for these, but they are very free moving so will need very little power to move them.

 

 

These are actually shown upside down and not at the correct height or position.

 

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

Bringing this thread up to date.

On the RotaYard the main machining of the bearing blocks is now complete, but we do have three bins of swarf now!

 

 

The gear wheel is a stock item, so that saved a lot of work.

 

 

We have mainly been sticking down sleepers.

 

 

A couple of jigs were made to match the spacing of Bredgar sleepers, then some were slightly skewed and offset, again to match those at Bredgar.

 

 

When the glue is dry the sleepers will be lightly belt sanded to ensure a good level surface for the rail.

 

 

A while ago we received a lot of packages containing cast chair baseplates, slide chairs, pandrol clips and baseplate bolts, all made from our own patterns.

 

 

A close up of some the castings. We have a good few evenings work cutting these from the sprues and cleaning up.

 

 

We also have a website for the layout www.fsij.co.uk where you can follow our progress in one central point, although I do need to do some updating to bring it to where we are now.

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

It has been a while since the last update, colder weather and working on another layout The Yard has been the prime reasons for no updates.

Things have been happening and indeed have happened today as well, now the temperatures are improving, gluing has commenced in the workshop.

Sleepers have been going down, the landscape has been getting an undercoat of black.

 

 

Point templates have been stuck down.

 

 

Development work has been going on with the sample track section, on this we are working out techniques for painting and ballasting the track. Initial sleeper distressing and blackening of track and fittings. this test piece is using some brass rail we had, the layout rail will be nickle silver.

 

 

A smaller section I was working on a few posts back, has had some more colouring and ballast added.

 

 

This set the method for the main test piece, here shows it as built and coloured up side by side with a black undercoat where the ballast will eventually go.

 

 

A few more sleepers as they are developed.

 

 

 

Some ballast has gone down.

 

 

Here I have started to work on some more sleeper colouring and the rail fixing plates and clamps. Studying the real thing and blowing up reference photos, I had not noticed before but the cast fixing bolts hold a distinct grey hue when dry, so this had to be replicated.

 

 

Because of the dappled shade that Stony Shaw resides in, much algae and moss appears on the sleepers, the initial colouring of which I used some AK Interactive washes, there will be some bulk growth once I can get the correct flock texture and colouring correct. Because we used brass rail for the test, I rubbed some graphite on the rail head to reduce the brass effect.

 

 

Another small section.

 

 

A shot from above, the top rail area has not been worked up, only the lower section at the moment. Still lots to do, not entirely happy with it yet, but have some ideas.

 

 

To give an idea of scale, I took a photo with a pound coin in view.

 

r

 

Alongside all this the pointwork rails were being machined to shape and profile, quite tough work on rail of this size.

 

For scale comparison, a point V next to a Peco O-16.5 point.

 

We are working to 31mm gauge to give better looking clearances using off the shelf wheel sets, for this we have made our own gauges and done a test piece to check geometry and running.

 

 

Warmer weather today meant we could get on with sticking sleepers down, using our own drawings and photos for reference.

 

 

It wasn't long before this lot was down.

 

 

This view is from the Warren Wood side of Stony Shaw signal box, in the foreground are the timbers for the point lever mechanism. The lower timber is not stuck in place, it has to be distressed and coloured first, then it will be fixed in place.

 

 

For a bit of fun, we picked up a couple of these sets from GRS, lovely brass models which will be fitted with RC shortly, we already have one trialing the RC. We can then use these to test the track as we build it.

 

 

That's all for now, there will be an update on the RotaYard hopefully next week, we have all the parts back from CNCing, so will be in a position to start assembling.

 

Martin, Ken, Neale and Simon.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Greengiant

[Bogie]

This is mind boggling!!

[Greengiant]

This is mind boggling!!

 

Thank you.

 

Martin

Next up for the track is the painting and fitting of fish plates. These are lost wax cast from our own masters.

 

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

With an application of Casey Gun Blue, the initial under coat colouring is done.

 

 

Now have to work up colour and texture, cut the rail head but unfortunately too late to cut the rail web for the test piece, this has been handy in highlighting that we need to cut the rail web before fixing the rail in place. We don't want to cut right through the rail because the fish plates are only cosmetic additions.

 

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

 

The final lot of sleepers have now been stuck down apart from two points, the one that goes to the goods shed and the one at the end of the run round.

Four of the six scenic boards looking from the station end.

 

 

The same four boards from the goods shed end.

 

 

Once the final point timbers are down they will all get a light sanding to make sure all the levels and gradients are correct, then it will be a distressing time for the sleepers being attacked by various implements before painting, then ballasting.

When this is complete the rail will be fixed in place and tested, once approved this too will get weathered.

 

Martin

Edited May 27, 2018 by Greengiant

[Greengiant]

While work continues on the track attention also turns towards landscaping, developing techniques and materials to give the impression of Stony Shaw we aim to achieve.
The base layer is earth, so what better product to represent Stony Shaw soil than the soil itself, also a lot cheaper than if we had to do this lot with scenic powders!
Excavation yielded a bucket or two full of the required soil. This was initially garden sieved to remove worms etc., then spread out in seed trays and left in the greenhouse to dry out.

 

 

After about a week the dried soil lumps were crushed by hand into smaller bits, these were then ground using a pestle and mortar.

 

 

The resultant grindings were further sieved through various kitchen utensils until we had four sizes of soil grain.

 

 

The finest of which is not far off that of cement powder and will be used as a filler once the coarser grains have been stuck in place.

 

 

The next size, which is the one we will probably use the most of nicely captures the various types of particle in the soil.

 

 

Size up again gives a nice selection for areas requiring a coarser texture.

 

 

Martin

Edited May 18, 2018 by Greengiant

[Greengiant]

This week's activity consisted of sanding the sleepers for gradient transitions, we used a belt sander and small hand plane, we used the two items because not all the sleeper tops should be on the same level. In a small number places the track is spiked rather than plate and clipped, this means the spiked sleepers need to be slightly higher so the rail rests on the sleeper tops. This meant it was not always possible to use the belt sander, hence the plane to do individual sleepers as required. Also some more 3mm ply infill panels were cut and stuck down, these are purely to save on ballast material.

 

 

This photo shows the profile of board four and the various track levels, also one of the baseboard support panels along with the fixings and the lower fascia top support groove.

 

 

One of the lower fascia panels in place, the strip at the bottom is folded steel sheet to the angle of the leg support, these now need to be drilled on the lower lip which is behind the white panel, into these holes will be clipped bungee cords which are then attached to the rear cross braces, this then pulls the panel into the the support legs and up into the groove under the baseboard. Once the whole layout is proved for the lower fascia the metal strips will be sprayed white.

 

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

RotaYard gondola final construction has started. The gondola ends are made from two laminated pieces of CNC routed 12mm ply cut from our CAD files, to aid accurate assembly we first made a construction jig.

First a perspex drilling guide jig to create the assembly jig.

 

 

The jig consists of two aluminium plates with steel locating pins.

 

 

The first piece of ply inserted into the assembly jig.

 

 

With glue applied the second piece is added.

 

 

Then the top plate is added.

 

 

A side view of the jig, G clamps are applied to this then removed, cover taken off and excess glue wiped off, then put back, clamped up and left until the glue has set.

 

 

After a while we ended up with a batch of supports.

 

 

A few spares were made so we can test out various colouring options.

 

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

All of the scenic boards have been undercoated in black.

Attention turns to trimming the end profile of the first RotaYard board to match the last scenic board. The RotaYard board was left like this originally because we had a change of plan during construction, rather than go through a hole in the sky to the yard, we decided to keep it more on show and blended into the scenery rather than behind a false sky. Only time will tell if this will work as well as it does in my head!

 

 

Here the board end has been trimmed and the start has been made constructing the RotaYard approach trackbed supports, which in turn leads to the traverser before entering the RotaYard. Intention is the approach track and traverser track will all be made in the same weathered method as the rest of the layout. The front and rear of the RotaYard boards will be landscaped with just the RotaYard itself left in stark clinical contrast of white and aluminium, we had intended from the very start that the yard will be very much on view rather than hidden away, affording visitors a good view of the stock as it slowly rotates at 2rpm being readied for its next call of duty.

 

 

Gradually taking shape, the traverser runners just placed in the well.

 

 

This gives a good view of the RotaYard and three of the scenic boards, a further three will be attached at the far end. Having the RotaYard on view gives us a 32' frontage with something to see rather than just the 24' of scenic frontage.

 

 

Because of the curved nature of the boards and the height, it does mean neither the RotaYard operator or the station operator have direct line of sight of each other. We have a few ideas utilising small cameras which should overcome such problems, but it is early days yet.

 

Martin

[Greengiant]

Latest update.

Having now laminated up all the gondola ends it was time to move onto assembly, for this we made a drilling jig, parts for this were CNC routed to our drawings at the same time as the gondola ends were cut. The jig is very important in guaranteeing consistent and precise drilling.

This is the basic jig.

 

 

Gondola trackbed base, the sides of which have to be slightly pulled out and spring back to grip the jig.

 

 

Gondola ends dropped into position in the jig.

 

 

The whole assembly is turned on its side then placed in a pillar drill, I forgot to take a photograph of that part!

 

 

We made a steel plate with brass tubes to guide the drills in exactly the right place and angle. The small hole between the jig and the gondola end where the drill passes through, is there purely to give somewhere for the waste wood to exit, otherwise it could well have jammed up the tubes.

 

 

One done, five more to go.

 

 

Alongside this the traverser approach track bed has been finished.

Here the side supports are in place.

 

 

Track wiring access holes have been cut out and the tube to take the wiring out the back has been installed.

 

 

Track bed base in position.

 

 

A view showing both of the RotaYard baseboards. The reason for the two castellated ribs will become clear later on.

 

 

The end wheels mocked up with a temporary very undersize axle!

 

 

Sleepers being glued on the approach road using a real track plate to hold them down.

 

 

The gondola pivots and bearings have been machined and matched in sets.

 

 

One of the end wheels being reamed to suit the bearings.

 

 

The motor, gearbox and toothed wheel that will drive the RotaYard. The dark grey plastic parts are mounts we created in CAD and then 3D printed.

 

 

This is the adjustable idler gear we created in CAD and 3D printed, the tooted drive belt can also be seen.

 

 

This shows the drive arrangement, in this photo the motor is bolted in place through the framework using captive nuts in recesses in the 3D printed motor mount, the idler gear is temporarily clamped in place while we mark up the frame for hole positions.

 

 

A side view.

 

 

This shows the whole powered end set up with the actual axle in place and one gondola.

 

 

Finally an overall view.

 

 

Martin

[DavidB]

Wow - this is SO clever. Loving the way the build is progressing.

 

David

[Greengiant]

Latest update.

 

The traverser approach sleepers are all now in place and fettling them along with those on board six has now taken place.

 

 

Foam blocks have been stuck in place along most of the front, these will be carved to shape once the Gorilla glue has gone off. The foam blocks have only gone as far as the RotaYard control panel because the final design of the control panel has not been decided yet, although the surround for the panel will be made up of walls of weathered sleepers, hence the stepped element on the baseboard ribs. Our thoughts are to blend the panels into the scenery a little more than we had originally planned. The control panel will have a mimic trackplan with switches and indicator lights for the points and signals. There will be six switches with lights, one for each of the RotaYard gondolas, there will be a switch with lights for the traverser, there will be a LCD screen with a camera feed from the station end of the layout, a series of buttons which will activate onboard uncouplers for some items of stock, there will be a 'Train ready' button with indicator lights and there will also be a panic button!

 

 

At this end on the board you can see the start of the trackbed supports for the run off spur from the RotaYard. At the rear a start has been made cutting the foam inserts for the back bank.

 

 

 

Here the front foam inserts have been profile shaped

.

 

Now we have the RotaYard at full size, our thoughts have changed on final presentation, initially it was going to be all white, but this we felt may too much, so the latest idea is to line the well of the yard with sheet material (see rough mock up in photo below), this will be static flocked etc. to match the rest of the layout scenery. The uprights and gondola bases will be satin black, the water cut aluminum end wheels and gear wheel will all be left in their raw material, the gondola CNC'd plywood ends will just be clear satin varnished, hopefully like this with the Bredgar coloured rolling stock, the yard could almost look like it is floating in mid air, OK, you may need a bit of imagination for that! Only time will tell if it will work out.

 

 

Traverser

Just a bit of a recap about the traverser and why we have one.

The original idea of the layout was to have a single point and a hidden track disappearing behind board six to hold spare locos when transferring them to the other end of the trains. During discussions it was decided that this would take up time in getting locos in the correct order, not ideal at an exhibition and as the operating is front of layout, access would be a problem. So as a result the two position traverser came into being.

 

The idea we came up with was to use a sliding plate with two tracks, these feed the central through track and two separate holding tracks, each one long enough for a loco. The traverser had to be strong enough to carry up to 4 Kg (10 lbs), slide easily and also be positionally accurate. In addition to being alongside the RotaYard, because it will be very visible, it had to look the part. An added advantage with a two track, two position traverser is that there will always be a track in the central position, no matter which direction the plate has moved.

 

The design uses ball bearing linear motion slides and chrome steel rods similar to those used in 3D printers. The track bed or plate is mounted on the bearings and the rods are fitted to front and rear bulkheads via 3D printed holder assemblies (see photo below of holder assemblies).

 

 

The sector plate is made of 6mm perspex as this gave the required strength and lightness and also allows us to show the mechanical construction. The positional drive is via 6mm toothed belt and pulleys with the drive motor/gearbox fitted to the rear equipment area, in keeping with the ideas used on the rest of the layout. The final drive uses a slipping clutch so the plate can be held in either position although the motor does switch off once the slip is detected. To provide positional accuracy at each end of the plate travel, there are adjustable end stops which act on the bearing blocks rather than the plate so the centre track line up can be set at each end.

 

One problem that arose was how to feed the DCC to the rails. Flexible wiring was one method but it can be subject to damage and fatigue plus, in our opinion, doesn't look the part. The solution we came up with was to transfer the DCC feed at each end to the bearing blocks via pogo pins (see photo above of holder assemblies) so the wiring is fixed. The other advantage is that as soon as the plate moves off the end position the DCC feeds are disconnected so the locos cannot move during transition.

 

 

Apart from the 3D printed rod holders and belt parts, the main sector plate and front and rear plates are machined on a CNC system for accuracy. The track is hand built and matches the main track-work.

 

One final requirement was that, should there be an unlikely failure in the drive system, the traverser had to be operable. This is the reason a belt system was chosen, by disconnecting the rear drive the traverser can still be moved by hand.

 

Martin

Edited June 11, 2018 by Greengiant

[Greengiant]

Thank you for all the likes, glad fellow modellers are finding it interesting.

 

We have been drilling the gondolas using the jigs we built.

Here we are drilling the end supports of the gondolas, it takes some clamping, but the more accurate we are at each stage it should pay dividends when we finally assemble the yard.

 

 

Here we are drilling the gondola bases, ensuring they match up with the end supports.

 

 

Finally we ended up with the six gondolas, hopefully later this week we can assemble the yard and test it, if all OK it will be stripped for painting.

 

 

Martin