m davies Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Ok, its about time I braved the world of virtual modeling so to speak, I've been a keen railway enthusiast for years and modeled in 4mm, until about 12 years ago when real life got in the way. A trip last year to Wharley showed how much things had progressed and especially O gauge, the sale of all of my Euro 4mm procured a MMP class 56 and class 60, these joined last week by a 57/0. Introductions over, now the disclaimer, whats happens below is my choice, it is not a reflection of the kit or the manufacturer, I'm not doing this because I have to, but because I can and want to, and yes it does add a lot more work to the overall project. The kit, as can be expected from MMP, is very detailed and concise, whilst I have not looked at every part in detail the ones I am concentrating on now are very good and only two niggles spotted to date, the first is the buffer beam side sheets, the instructions would have you mount these in the slots provided, this means the inner end is not in the right place, in reality this beam runs from the edge of the buffer beam to the outside beam of the loco, this isn't a problem, just move accordingly, the other is the sand boxes, which are close in shape but not correct, I'll ponder how to address that later. One thing I wanted to do was turn the kit method of construction upside down, not only for the 57/0 but the 56 and 60, I wanted a removable floor, this means a change from the kits floor attached to the sides (pre bent on the 57/0 and very handy) and a fixed roof not using the folded tabs supplied, more on that later, whilst the sides and floor are substantial pieces of brass I wanted to add more bracing internally, its so easy to grab a brass loco and deform the cantrail area, well for me anyway and I tend to over engineer everything too. Removing the floor also adds another benefit, no longer being tied to the sides allows it to be raised and then under floor bracing added to represent the depressed belly area under the engine and other formed structures under there, this extra metal work adds strength and doubles as support for when it becomes the removable floor. Right, progress so far, having cut the sides off, new sections have been added under the floor to beef up this area and make it look more 3D, granted many will not see under here but my proposed layout will mostly be viewed at a much lower level than most. so some sort of detail under here would be required. The pictures to date. The kit right out of the box The new buffer beam side panel, note it comes all the way to the edge of the chassis, I've also added some thickness to it, an internal wall will be added and a new drag box beam added in behind the buffer bean. Same part but a different angle, I've yet to clean up the cab floor (raised part) rear area and it needs some metal work in here to mate with the engine room floor, in reality there is no step here on real locos, the cab floor is level with the engine room floor, I could have made it the same level but then the engine room floor would have been much higher and presented more problems with the depressed part below the engine, so its not perfect or true scale but a mid way representation. Finally the new mid section below the engine, theres more floor to be added and more transverse beams, but you can see the sloped sides to the depressed floor below the engine and the two extra ribbed supports, there will be other details to add, but the basic shell is there. I've yet to fill the area under the tapered blocks. The side sheets will sit so that the lower edge is 0.25mm below the new longitudinal beams, therefore all you see here will be up inside the loco so to speak. Ok thats enough to bore you all with for one evening. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Interesting. Oh, and respect for the Nimbus nameplate. It was my favourite as well as Finsbury Park's. I first saw it getting a repaint on Doncaster Works around 1963, and my last sighting was the DAY BEFORE withdrawal on the 10 o'clock stopper going north out of Retford, I took the chance to travel behind it as far as Donny. Nimbus was taken into Doncaster Works the next day, and the rest is history, as they say Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi, Nimbus, was one of two I never saw, so I made my own 1:1 scale nameplate, I've got templates for all the letters and might whizz another up over winter, probably another racehorse variant. I need to take a better picture square on and further away to remove the wide angle fish eye effect, just waiting for a break in the weather <sigh>. Back to the 57/0, finally managed to get the drag box and floor finished, though it needs some gaps filling and a little more cleaning up, my fiber brush must be old as its just falling apart as soon as I touch anything, theres glass fibers all over the place, blessed itchy too. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi, Nimbus, was one of two I never saw, so I made my own 1:1 scale nameplate, I've got templates for all the letters and might whizz another up over winter, probably another racehorse variant. I need to take a better picture square on and further away to remove the wide angle fish eye effect, just waiting for a break in the weather <sigh>. Back to the 57/0, finally managed to get the drag box and floor finished, though it needs some gaps filling and a little more cleaning up, my fiber brush must be old as its just falling apart as soon as I touch anything, theres glass fibers all over the place, blessed itchy too. Kindest Michael Try dipping the g/f brush is a 50/50 solution of PVA glue and water, then let it dry. What's the Nimbus nameplate made of? And if you were to be4 asked, how much to do a copy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Try dipping the g/f brush is a 50/50 solution of PVA glue and water, then let it dry. What's the Nimbus nameplate made of? And if you were to be4 asked, how much to do a copy? Fiber brush, good idea, will try that now and see what gives. The nameplate is made of MDF with strip wood edges, its the right sizes and thickness but very light, only problem is I either didn't keep the weights on when gluing it together or when sprayed it bowed a little, one day it was flat, the next bowed by 3mm in the center up wards, next time it'll all be MDF and sprayed back and front to hopefully stop that, it looks ok sitting on the wall but up close a bit nicked and pitted ie its not chrome smooth, kind of looks like a casting, its sprayed with Halfords car sprays, cant remember the exact colors and the masking needs a little cleaning up next time, but I'm happy with it , you don't see all that when its on the wall a few feet away. Cost, never considered selling or making them to be honest, took about three weeks in all, cutting the letters was the hardest and I'd need to fine tune that process, hard to say, wouldn't want to leave some one feeling ripped off or hard done by and I'd need to be sure it stayed in one piece for some considerable time, ie paint adhesion, letter fixing and general warping etc before I was comfortable. Heres a link to the original image, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mickoo/Trains/IMG_5138.jpg I'll take some more better ones once the weather clears and send them to my FTP with a link here if your interested. Probably do Meld or Pinza next. Best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Just a small update, finally squared away the first of the engine support beams and the visible ends of the depressed engine room floor, as yet the outer ends need filling to meet the old raised floor, both drag boxes now complete and hopefully the other engine support beam as well. Whilst the engine room floor is equal each length toward each end of the loco, the support beams are not, those at #1 end are further from the buffers than those of #2 end. The side door is equal distance between the beams but is not in the middle of the body side, being more toward #2 end than #1. Those with keen eyes will note I have my beams back to front, the beam at #2 end should have the hole in for the attaching of the white metal bracket for the water or long range fuel tank depending on variant. So, two holes to fill and two more to drill later <sigh>. Best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Another small update, the engine support beams are now complete, I wasn't happy with the above so fabricated new ones that cover the full distance from the raised floor to the bottom of the beam and the effect is more complete. The inner bogie assembly was completed and found to foul the new depressed floor so a small section of the top rear of the bogie was removed much like the front end already is, negating the new depressed floor this cut makes the inner bogie's less obvious when looking side on so has a double bonus, functionality and visually. The tanks, this is where the class 57 gets a little complicated, there are several variants of tanks and battery box arrangements, those supplied by the kit are very good but only represent a small window of class 57 operation. As supplied you have a choice of full water tank arrangement, though not operational, just physical or totally non tank fitted ie just battery boxes. Depending on the donor locomotive depends on what they were fitted with initially. #1,2,3,5,6,8 & 9 were all full water tank fitted but not operational, #4,7,10,11 were non tank fitted only battery boxes and #12 was fitted with a long range fuel tank at #2 end only. The initial set up did not last long, very soon it was found that the long range tank fitted to #12 was a bonus and they were fitted to all class 57s from very early on, thus #4,7,10,11 became exactly like #12 was originally and the remaining others had their #2 water tank removed and a long range fuel tank fitted. For the casual observer you are now left with two types of under floor fittings, batch one has two tanks fitted, one original water tank and one new long range fuel tank, batch two has only one tank fitted, ie the long range fuel tank. Each batch has variations in other fittings, specifically the oil collection and measurement tank and other sundry fittings. Because I have not yet decided 100% which member I am going to model (Freightliner or even DRS) I felt it better to hedge my bets, unless your modeling a 57 in the very early years then tank 2 has to go and a new long range tank fitted or, a new #2 tank fitted. Unlike the original tanks, these tanks are quite crude, they are essentially utilitarian in design and manufacture, they appear not to be conversions of old water tanks, and have different fittings and fixings. Currently the tank is in basic form, with the fittings and NS overlays to be added later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djparkins Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The inner bogie assembly was completed and found to foul the new depressed floor so a small section of the top rear of the bogie was removed much like the front end already is, negating the new depressed floor this cut makes the inner bogie's less obvious when looking side on so has a double bonus, functionality and visually. The tanks, this is where the class 57 gets a little complicated, there are several variants of tanks and battery box arrangements, those supplied by the kit are very good but only represent a small window of class 57 operation. As supplied you have a choice of full water tank arrangement, though not operational, just physical or totally non tank fitted ie just battery boxes. Depending on the donor locomotive depends on what they were fitted with initially. #1,2,3,5,6,8 & 9 were all full water tank fitted but not operational, #4,7,10,11 were non tank fitted only battery boxes and #12 was fitted with a long range fuel tank at #2 end only. The initial set up did not last long, very soon it was found that the long range tank fitted to #12 was a bonus and they were fitted to all class 57s from very early on, thus #4,7,10,11 became exactly like #12 was originally and the remaining others had their #2 water tank removed and a long range fuel tank fitted. For the casual observer you are now left with two types of under floor fittings, batch one has two tanks fitted, one original water tank and one new long range fuel tank, batch two has only one tank fitted, ie the long range fuel tank. Each batch has variations in other fittings, specifically the oil collection and measurement tank and other sundry fittings. Because I have not yet decided 100% which member I am going to model (Freightliner or even DRS) I felt it better to hedge my bets, unless your modeling a 57 in the very early years then tank 2 has to go and a new long range tank fitted or, a new #2 tank fitted. Unlike the original tanks, these tanks are quite crude, they are essentially utilitarian in design and manufacture, they appear not to be conversions of old water tanks, and have different fittings and fixings. Currently the tank is in basic form, with the fittings and NS overlays to be added later. Enjoying your build - but I think it only fair to point out two things. 1. The inner ends of the motor bogies only needed altering due to other modifications of your own that you have chosen to make to the kit. 2. This kit was introduced very soon after these locos were introduced,[as with the first edition of our Class 60 kit], and was up to date as regards the underfloor equipment options at that time. We list it as a Class 57/O Freightliner Loco and any changes notwithstanding, so it is. Neither of these are faults in the kit as such - but are alterations born of personal preference. With Regards, David Parkins, Modern Motive Power www,djparkins.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Enjoying your build - but I think it only fair to point out two things. 1. The inner ends of the motor bogies only needed altering due to other modifications of your own that you have chosen to make to the kit. 2. This kit was introduced very soon after these locos were introduced,[as with the first edition of our Class 60 kit], and was up to date as regards the underfloor equipment options at that time. We list it as a Class 57/O Freightliner Loco and any changes notwithstanding, so it is. Neither of these are faults in the kit as such - but are alterations born of personal preference. With Regards, David Parkins, Modern Motive Power www,djparkins.com David, quite correct on both accounts, there is no way you could know what the future holds for the locos ten years hence, to date the only thing I have found slightly wrong are the sand box shapes (and that may be a variant change over time) and the buffer beam inner end side valance slots for the tabs, other than that the kit is excellent and I have to say, so good that it allows modifications very easily to more modern variantions. As you note, the kit will make a perfect 57/0 in their juvenile years for all candidates except #12. Since the change in tanks, very little else seems to have changed over the years, images I took of DRS owned #3 and #7 at Stowmarket the other week look very close to #3 and #7 I took many years ago at work when they were Freightliner owned. My only regret is that I didn't take more pictures, they always seemed to be there and always would be, then one day they were gone, I didn't make the same mistake with 47 370 which was parked for a few days ready to be loaded for scrap !. Ironically this was also long range tank fitted so those images are very usefull in ascertaining under floor arrangements. I hope my hackings don't destroy too much of your labours, I'd heard they were good kits by many before me, they were not wrong. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ok, time for a little update, work proceeds at a slow pace but proceed it does, I decided to get a bit of the body done to see if my initial thoughts on the constructional change would actually work. To facilitate a removable body the sides had been cut off the floor so now they need to be made into a sub structure, at floor height two lengths of 3x5mm machined angle were soldered on, this placed the body sides at the right height in relation to the floor, next four 8x2mm cross beams were soldered in with in the body section, each was fitted with 2 M2 nuts and corresponding holes drilled in the floor. So far so good, to attach the roof I removed the current folded sections from the sides and roof, the ones on the side were then soldered to the inner of each side and left a 2mm lip at the top, the idea was then to form the roof panels and solder them in a butt joint where they met the sides, all good in theory until I tried to get the soldering iron in there !, even with no floor is was next to impossible to solder the lap joint, especially as I needed to solder the top seam and not the bottom, solder doesn't run round corners too well. In the end I went for a thin seam on the exterior and removed the excess solder. I have to be honest, I wanted to get a set of roller bars at Warley today but saw none, so decided to hand roll the first roof section, it was a disaster, those nice lovely thin grills just bent much easier than the surrounding brass, then I remembered that annealing would soften it up, sadly I got a bit carried away and nearly melted the brass etch, its taken about 6 hours to straighten it all up, lesson #1 learned good and hard, anneal before you try to bend !. The most difficult part is the extra tight radius where the roof meets the body, rolling bars would be no good here anyway, perhaps a set of those bars that come with a machined set of troughs to match the bar diameter would suffice. The problem is compounded by a thin half etch to simulate the roof panel join about 4mm from the base of the roof, try as one might it always creases there, ohh I know it can be done, I'm just not very good at it yet . I've also noted that one of the roof panels in the the has lost its attachment rivet detail toward one end, a small glitch in the etch process. Being as these are not that obvious on the real loco I'll end up filling them in and the half etch noted above as well, this'll make it easier to form the tight radius needed here, whilst I will loose some etch detail I'd rather have a clean and smooth shape, the rivets I might be able to add later, we'll see how it goes. Overall its been a trying day, whats left is a reasonable effort at recovering some very bent and distorted brass, I'm still not 100% happy with it but reasonably confident the final dings can be bent out, the pitfalls of not following the kit instructions or trying something different . Anyway the current progress pictures with a lot of solder to clean up internally. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 You should be able to add the rivets later by using the rivet transfers from Archer: http://www.archertransfers.com/catSurfaceDetails.html They're in the US, but shipping is extremely fast, I had mine within 3 or 4 days of ordering. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 You should be able to add the rivets later by using the rivet transfers from Archer: http://www.archertransfers.com/catSurfaceDetails.html They're in the US, but shipping is extremely fast, I had mine within 3 or 4 days of ordering. HTH Thanks, thats more like it, more subtile than punched rivets as the real ones are very indistinct, I've been relooking at this area in detailed images and they look to be like pan head bolts with an allen key fixing, the etched ones being a good representation, there also seems to be a strengthening strap along the base of the roof panel so I'll add that with some 5thou strip, might take the eye away from my bent overheated metal work bashing LOL. This was the easiest roof panel to make, the other two are much more fragile so some carefull thought now as to how its going to be built needs to be done, its that small extra radius at the bottom thats causing the most grief. Best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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