NCE USB interface problem

[jaym481]

I have an NCE USB interface that I got as part of a bunch of stuff a while ago, and thought I'd try it out today. I installed JMRI, connected the Power Cab, PCP and USB interface, then connected the USB to my laptop. The driver downloaded and installed automatically.

 

I launched JMRI DecoderPro3, carried out the configuration according to the instructions. Everything seemed to work - the status indications in the bottom margin of the decoderPro window indicated green (see the log file at the end of this post). When I attempted to read the decoder the LED on the PCP and the one on the PCP connected end of the USB adapter flickered, so some info was being exchanged, but I kept getting an error failure to read the decoder. I tried several locomotives, and no luck, though the Power Cab was still able to recognize and operate them, so they were clearly "connected" to the track.

 

From this, it seems there's a problem with the connection between the USB adapter and the computer. 

 

The Power Cab is only a few months old, I bought it new from a UK dealer. 

 

Here is the info from the log file if that will help:

---------------------

2015-04-30 15:11:09,019 util.Log4JUtil                        INFO  - ****** JMRI log ******* [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:09,073 util.Log4JUtil                        INFO  - This log is appended to file: C:\Users\Jay\JMRI\log\messages.log [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:09,074 util.Log4JUtil                        INFO  - This log is stored in file: C:\Users\Jay\JMRI\log\session.log [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:09,081 apps.AppsBase                         INFO  - DecoderPro 3 version 3.10-r27895 starts under Java 1.8.0_40 at Thu Apr 30 15:11:09 BST 2015 [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:12,492 gui3.Apps3                            INFO  - Starting with profile Test_Profile.3edc6978 [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:12,785 usbdriver.UsbDriverAdapter            INFO  - NCE USB COM11 port opened at 9600 baud [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:12,910 nce.NceConnectionStatus               INFO  - NCE EPROM revision = 7.3.0 [AWT-EventQueue-0]

2015-04-30 15:11:14,255 util.FileUtil                         INFO  - File path program: is C:\Program Files (x86)\JMRI\ [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:14,255 util.FileUtil                         INFO  - File path preference: is C:\Users\Jay\JMRI\Test_Profile\ [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:14,256 util.FileUtil                         INFO  - File path profile: is C:\Users\Jay\JMRI\Test_Profile\ [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:14,257 util.FileUtil                         INFO  - File path settings: is C:\Users\Jay\JMRI\ [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:14,257 util.FileUtil                         INFO  - File path home: is C:\Users\Jay\ [main]

2015-04-30 15:11:14,258 util.FileUtil                         INFO  - File path scripts: is C:\Program Files (x86)\JMRI\jython\ [main]

2015-04-30 15:12:03,235 jmrit.AbstractIdentify                WARN  - Stopping due to error: No locomotive detected (301) [AWT-EventQueue-0]

[soony]

If I remember right you are probably using a USB adaptor with the previous 'old' software on board, and probably a handset with v1.65 , the latest , on board.. They are not compatible. Its either buy a new USB adaptor with the latest software flashed, or send the old one back to NCE in the states for a free upgrade, except it costs you post --- and time..

Edited April 30, 2015 by soony

[10000]

I've had this because of Win 8.1 installing a driver automatically. Unfortunatley the drivers Win 8.1 are not always the correct or best driver.

 

I suggest you start by uninstall the driver from windows get onto the NCE website to find the driver and install that rather than letting windows do it automatically.

 

Decoderpro preferences allow you to set a 6.x.x or 7.x.x usb interface.

 

I also found that first time read of the loco needs to be done with programming track setting in Decoderpro not POM

[jaym481]

Thanks for the tips. I'll doublecheck everything and see if a driver re-install works.

[HLT 0109]

I hope I am adding to (rather than hijacking) this thread.

 

I also have a problem with the interface connection to my PC.  The PC I intend to use for my layout has Windows XP installed but is no longer connected to the internet.  I have therefore downloaded all the software including the driver onto my new PC using Windows 8.1 and copied them to the older machine using a memory stick as the transfer medium.  The downloads were all obtained using the appropriate links from the JMRI.sourceforge.net website and appear to be in accordance with guidance on the Mark Gurries website.  Installation went well but, when i tried to load the program and select the connection settings, I received the message "NCE using NCE USB on Com*" (where * is the number of the com port) selected in the JMRI settings menu.  The message appears to be saying that my USB cable is plugged into the wrong port on the PC but, no matter which USB slot I use on the PC, the message is the same.  I am using the USB cable from my new Epson printer.

 

Does anyone know is wrong?  Thanks,

 

Harold.

[10000]

USB is a seriel bus so many drivers are defined as com ports.

 

You can find the com port number in Windows device manager Com ports and printers section look for the Silicon labs driver and note the com port number.

 

In Decoderpro in the EDIT menu is Preferences  go into that and it should be on the connections section

 

At the top  - manufacturer - NCE

 

then  -   type NCE USB

 

then in the settings section - first is the com port selection which should be the same as port that windows shows.

[HLT 0109]

Thanks 10000.  After much deliberation and searching on the internet, I have overcome my problem of the error message - it was failure of the driver to install properly.  After uninstalling and reinstalling everything, the message has disappeared.  It didn't help that, following a Youtube video I positioned the interface upside down relative to the instruction manual without realising it, so the jumpers appeared in reverse order - not very clever when you want to use numbers 2 & 4! 

 

Train now running - thanks.

Harold.

[jaym481]

This reminds me that I need to update. It now works for me, mostly. I still get an occasional "no loco detected" message, but I suspect it's my track and/or connections. The larger problem is that some Hornby and Bachmann decoders seem to go unrecognized. 

[Ray H]

With apologies to the OP. The thread title says it all so I didn't see any reason to start a new thread.

 

My colleague has a dedicated test track with NCE PCP and PowerCab which can/does control locos on the track.

 

He also has an NCE USB interface board that he has used before with DecoderPro and the programming track.

 

His previous version of DecoderPro and the associated files were deleted when he had to re-install Windows from the ground up. However, prior to that he managed to create a roster for each of his locos. This suggests that the configuration was working satisfactorily before.

 

He has re-installed JMRI and the correct driver software - downloaded from the NCE website) - but can't get the link between the computer and the track to work.

 

The two SMD LEDs on the interface board flash momentarily when the cable between the PCP and the interface board is inserted. The LEDs do not illuminate at any other time.

 

The PowerCab can still move locos along the programming track and the computer knows when the USB lead is connected to or disconnected from the Interface board.

 

Attempts to read any decoder via DecoderPro consistently return the same value - of 123 - for the vast majority of CVs something it continues to do even when the loco is briefly lifted from the track! We can also get DecoderPro to reputedly read the CV values when there is nothing on the programming track -  the values for those CVs are all returned as 123!

 

The flat and curly leads the interface guide says should be used (and the PowerCab) work fine on his (totally separate) layout and we've checked continuity through the computer end of the USB to and the USB socket on the interface board.

 

We have concluded, perhaps erroneously, that the USB interface board is defective.

 

Are there any other checks that we can make?

[Nigelcliffe]

Preferences in JMRI - the symptoms you describe are consistent with the "defaults" in the preferences being set to "internal" rather than to the NCE system.

 

( what often happens is that the preferences were saved once, possibly accidentally, with the system not connected, so the software reverted to internal.  Having "saved" the preferences that reversion sticks.   There was also a problem (now fixed) where a JMRI upgrade caused that preferences change to apply in many cases). 

 

- Nigel

[Ray H]

Thanks Nigel.

 

I can't get to check the preferences out but I know that I did set it up using the NCE options once the various updates had been downloaded.

[Jaggzuk]

Hi, rather than start a new topic,  I thought I would ask my question under this title.

 

I have just got working my new USB Interface/adapter with JMRI.  The setup process included a huge amount of headbanging and scratching - apparently not all NCE leads are equal and work when it comes to the USB interface I have found!

 

I have two straight though 6 wire NCE RJ-12 curly leads, both work with my PowerCab when it is plugged into the PCP lefthand socket.  But as soon as I add the USB interface to the setup I found out, after a lot of hassle with settings on PC etc, that only one of the leads actually works with the USB adapter when the lead was plugged into the lefthand socket on the PCP as per the instructions.  The only difference I can tell is that the colour order of the six wires appears to be different - one is White, black, red, green, yellow and blue, the other is the complete reverse even though the plugs were held in the same orientation.

Anyway, my other big issue which has stumped me and I hope someone can answer is how do I get a 2nd NCE Throttle to work in the setup when also using the USE Interface and JMRI WiThrottle.  I am using the PCP as follows:  NCE PowerCab lefthand socket.  USB Interface righthand  socket and an NCE Cab06 Engineers Throttle in the back socket - see below

 

 

What actually happens is this:

With all three connected, WiThrottle running and DecoderPro showing a comms connection to the system, none of the Throttles work on the PC or Android tablets but both the PowerCab and Cab06 work and I can drive trains.  When I unplug the Cab06 from the PCP and reboot JMRI  then run WiThrottle, the Throttles now work on the PC and tablets as does the PowerCab.

 

So is a second NCE Throttle and JMRI / USB Interface incompatible?

 

Note: The Cab06 is connected via a NCE 4 wire curly cable.  Using both NCE Throttles was my setup before buying the USB Interface.

 

Before anyone asks why do I need both setups.  My two small boys are perfectly happy to use the NCE Throttles and have done for several years now, but when I join in we need more than two Throttles, one each, hence branching out to JMRI, which has added a whole new fun element using tablets and smartphone Throttles.  But I need to have an easy option of running both systems., I do not want to have to keep unplugging wires.

 

Help much appreciated.
 

 

[RedgateModels]

I thought at one time you could only connect one other device to a Powercab at any one time, although I may be wrong with that now with the latest version of the Powercab firmware ...

 

Also, if you can use more than one device I would have though you would need to have a second PCP panel linked into the first?

[Ray H]

Have you checked that the 6 pin leads are wired through so that pin 1 goes to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2, etc. Could that be why one behaves different to the other? That said I made up a lead for club a few weeks back. It worked perfectly on my set-up here at home either with an SB5 or the PowerCab  but it wouldn't work with the PowerCab at club. I eventually traced the problem to a mis-aligned pin in one of the sockets at the club.

 

Have you tried plugging the link to the computer into the back of the PCP and the Cab06 into the front?

[Nigelcliffe]

Two issues to resolve:

 

1 - the software/firmware version on the PowerCab.   Older ones had very limited expansion (like RedgateModels I think it was one more device).  I think the newer ones can take a bit more.

 

2 -  the Cab-Address set to each device.  Each device needs its own, unique, Cab-Address.    See NCE manuals on how to set these.   But, get point-1 solved first, or you might be reading the wrong documentation.

 

 

[dasatcopthorne]

I have issues setting up the USB connection but not WiFi, I admit.

 

Two things I did learn was that the latest JMRI 4.7 xxx made my set up work and the USB interface board must be set to Throttle 3.

 

Configured in JMRI along one of the menus at the top of the screen.

 

Best of luck

 

Dave.

[Damo666]

NCE and their USB Interface and JMRI

 

If you were to watch Larry Puckett (aka ‘The DCC Guy’ on YouTube), you’d be led to believe that a lot of people have trouble in setting up their NCE USB Interface. And I can see why, the published instructions seem to change a lot.

 

I would preface this by saying that Larry’s YT videos are very well presented. No waffle, in a logical sequence and clear videography (none of this holding your mobile in one hand whilst trying to solder in the other, and all you see is the back of their hand whilst hearing a description about ‘this is the important part to solder’). Larry’s YT gave me the confidence to proceed with the operations and I’m a subscriber to his channel, so this is certainly NOT a criticism. It’s more an indication that things have moved on since Larry’s YT, which I hope to address from my experience yesterday.

 

First, the most important part of the process is the Quick Start on the back page of the NCE booklet. I got my new NCE USB Interface yesterday, yet the manual was last revised Sept 2012.

This is my booklet:

 

Larry’s video was uploaded in June 2020, just 3 years ago and his booklet is different (yet confusingly they are both ‘last revised’  27th Sept 2012).

Here's a screenshot from his video. You can see there are 8 steps instead of 6, and the web links are different.

And neither are correct.

 

Here’s what I did yesterday to get it working (and my potential mistake too). I'm on Windows 10 with all the latest updates.

 

The Quick Start is certainly the 1st step, and the links they provide.

 

They make it clear that there is a certain order to do things, otherwise the set-up will fail.

All advice says that if you have JMRI already on your PC, uninstall it and all DCC hardware profile folders that JMRI set up, then re-boot your PC.

 

My USB board came will all the jumper switches sset to OFF (The jumpers were stored sitting on only one pin). This corresponds with the instructions on Step 1 on this link:

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200590919-usb-driver-downlaod-and-installation

 

Step 2 of the NCE booklet says we should download the USB drivers, but the link below tells us that Windows 7 & 10 will most likely play nicely and download the correct driver for us no need to do it manually.

My Win10 PC downloaded the driver OK. On another link NCE tells us that Win11 will probably play nicely too.

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001995503-Using-the-USB-Interface-with-JMRI-Read-Me-First

 

Then follow the steps as per the printed manual, including installing JMRI.

 

Once you are up and running, NCE recommend this squuence:

1. Make sure that the DCC system AND PC are BOTH turned off.

2. Plug in all cables. - NCE DCC and PC / USB

3. Turn on the Power Cab FIRST. Wait for the red light to come on. 

4. Turn on the PC next.

5. Fire up JMRI last.

 

My ‘mistake’ was that I set the BAUD rate to 19200 in JMRI (Edit menu > Preferences > click ‘Advance Connection Settings’) and also in Device Manager > Ports > USB-SERIAL CH340 (COM3). Right-click > Properties >Port Settings Tab. [Don't do this, read on]

 

You should be seeing green status lines at the bottom of the DecoderPro screen. I was getting red.

 

It was not until I set both JMRI Preferences and Device Manager Port settings back to 9200 baud that I get the green status.

 

Missing from my manual, but Larry refers to it, is Jumper 1 on the USB interface board. This sets the Baud rate. JP1 Off is 9600 baud, jumper linked is ON = 19200 baud.

 

Changing jumper 1 to 19200, thereby matching the Device and JMRI, made no difference to JMRI, I was still getting a red status message.

 

I reverted the Device Port and JMRI back to 9600 and its all singing nicely.

 

Incidently, I've left Jumper 1 on (19200), Device Manager is 9600 and JMRI is 9600 too, and I’m still getting a green status light.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Damo666
Typos and clarity