Diesel Preservation... its easy.........isnt it?

[pheaton]

Electric locomotives interms of their internal control more or less operate on a similar principle to diesel electric locomotives, in that you have a groups of contactors operating the traction motors and electrical systsms on your loco, and like a diesel these periodically burn out or degrade.

 

In addition to this, like the engine on diesel loco the main transformer has a finite life, we all know that most electrics suffer from blown tranformers at some point in there life, but also in addition a transformer like a diesel can be overhauled to extend its life....things like an oil change and a paper leaf change. But that doesent stop a rogue current, voltage or just plain bad luck causing the transformer to just let go one day, and like diesels that transformer isnt an off the shelf item anymore....i dont doubt a modern equivilent could be adapted just like class 47s getting GM engines and being turned into class 57s, but in the spirit of preservation....that doesent make it a class 47 anymore does it?

 

With 26043 a solid state power control relay was designed (which is in operation in the loco today) i think the smaller electrical relays could be replaced with little trouble its when you start looking at the larger electrical machines (motors and auxilliary gear) that you start finding issues with replacements.

 

In 45149 the AVR is based on 1970s solid state electronics, and its not very reliable and its not very efficient, and ive had to have repaired twice, and it contains a lot of degradeable components, including a DCVT which is a square cube about 2x6 inches.....and to replace it will cost me £500, thats before you start looking at the vast myriad of components elesewhere in the AVR....now i could get a nice man who designed it to give me a new AVR as he has already repaired our AVR twice again thats £1600 and a lot of preservation groups simply dont have the money....

 

26043 has £900 to survive on for the rest of the year!

 

And thats the point of this thread its all very well having big ideas about preserving something as complex as a diesel locomotive or even an electrical locomotive but you need to money to back it up......otherwise thats a fews years of your life...your not going to get back!

 

in terms of 28xx post...

 

steam locomotives are vastly primitive interms of there principles and engineering....for example take a biliet of steel or brass or copper, and a decent engineering firm for which there many still in the uk, give them a pile of cash and a specification, and they will turn that billet of metal into anything you desire.

 

If i want my AVR rebuilt there are 2 people left that can do it to the standard i require

 

1,) Noel Craigen - the man who designed AVRs for BR

2,) Brush traction (the original manufacturer)

 

going further on

Can i get a replacement main generator or traction motors...no crompton dont exist, can i get a replacement engine, no sulzer dont exist, can i get a replacement pilot motor or gear box for my field diversion cam group , no the original manufacturer doesent exist. Can i get replacement cylinder heads.....ok yes i can from electroputere at an horrendous cost!!! What about brake valves and compressors....no davies and metcalfe anymore....what about my exhausters....

 

So its a case with diesels of repair and refurbish.....when things go beyond that....you have a problem.

 

We do have a steam preservation industry....but remember it wasnt the only industry that gave birth to tornado or in fact the only industry that is able to soley keep it running! Tornado probably wouldnt exist without the German rail industry who had the sense to look after their engineering heritage! But to be fair the success of tornado has kickstarted an important industry that we left to rot!

[Classsix T]

I think it'll eventually come to pass (hopefully not in my lifetime) that to keep some preserved diesels going the more robust Groups will have to rely on "Christmas treeing" the locomotives of less fortunate custodians.

Naturally the most sought after parts are going to attract hefty premiums given rarity and/or lack of third party alternatives.

 

The folks looking after the products of English Electric (Deltics excepted) probably have less to worry about, closely followed by Cl.47 owners. Even us in the Class 56 new swearword learning game are rather fortunate to have spares still being kept dust free courtesy of the type's second wind on the mainline and indeed, in terms of main alternator and traction motors, Cl.57.

 

A rather nasty tale which goes a long way to emphasise phaeton's post above was the case of a set of control cards being robbed from a certain locomotive that had been secured for preservation. Without this (essentially printed circuit board) component the loco was dead. It would've cost a fortune to have them replicated and basically stuffed the whole project. Luckily replacements were sourced but the whole saga tainted the diesel preservation movement for some while.

 

C6T.

[modfather]

56's are easy in pres terms. If you do desired all the cards, modules and rack can be sourced or reconditioned by more than one source...

[Classsix T]

With respect nothing is easy. It can be hassle free, simple or with little effort.

 

Cost is always a factor and we've been fortunate in sourcing spares when EWS saw no future for the Class. Subsequently, if we tried to restock our held spares now, it'd damage us financially.

 

A point also not yet made is, and I'm just talking about Cl.56 here, the attraction of stationary sources of copper to those who'd rather not go through the bother of asking the actual owner if they would like it left in situ.

56101 suffered radiator element theft, 56006 had two bouts of cable robbery. Many of the Grids offered for sale by DBS were devoid of essential cable and thus deemed unsaleable for traction purposes.

 

C6T.

[jjb1970]

Diesel engines are far more finely engineered than equivalent steam machinery and it is not just the obvious machining and dimensional tolerances, it is also materials, casting and forging requirements. And it is getting much worse for modern engines which rely on electronic control systems which can go obsolete long before the engine itself is life expired (noting that an engine is a bit like the proverbial broom in that you can keep renewing those bits that wear). And it is no use thinking the original manufacturer will be able to provide support as in many cases all knowledge of the engine in question has long left the company, they may no longer have the drawings, they may be unwilling to try and produce parts effectively on a bespoke basis and if they are willing and able the cost is very high. For a lot of the electronic components the manufacturers will be unable to do anything other than offer a new engine control system and the cost of refitting a new engine control system can often make it more attractive to just buy a new engine.

[pheaton]

You couldnt be further from the reality modfather, class 56s are extremely complex machines with a lot of bespoke complex electrical load regulation, not to mention the fact that the train braking system on a class 56 is also electronic. the class 56s marked the new era for diesel locomotives in the UK breaking tradition with a lot of the mechanical and pneumatic systems and switching these over to electronic control.

 

The scenario that classsix T refers to is the theft of the controller cards from 37905 and 37906 which were unique to a heavyweight alternator fitted class 37, the bill to have those cards remanfactured came in over 5k, to give you an idea...it was cheaper for a person to go to spain with permission and retreive a set of cards from a spanish allocated withdrawn heavyweight class 37!