Thoughts on my proposed layout design?

[Chimer]

That's about exactly what I had in mind - now we wait for everyone else to tell us why and where I'm wrong ......

[jon_1066]

You could do away with double slips especially at the front and just have a ladder of points - that would be more modern looking I think.

 

Cutting the board down is a good idea.

 

Most of your storage lines look too short for a four car DMU.  You could extend them by robbing some more of your scenic area.

[jon_1066]

That's about exactly what I had in mind - now we wait for everyone else to tell us why and where I'm wrong ......

 

I don't think its a matter of right and wrong - more pointing out potential pit falls that may not be initially obvious.

 

Having another think about your problem I believe the main thing you need to concentrate on is getting the reach down.  In order to do this the curves have to be as small radius as possible.  So that means R2 and R3.  With that you need set track spacing and it will look horrible.  So those need to go into a tunnel/behind a back scene.  If you do that then you could have a large scenic area with a similar layout to what you are proposing:

eg

 

This has five lines in the storage area that can take a four car DMU (though could probably be more if you wanted).  I have just chucked on a depot/TMD but you can fine tune that to whatever you want.  You can operate it with through services or as a straight out and back direct from the storage lines.  If you made the right hand side rolling countryside and the middle and left urban that would help with the tunnels.  A road overbridge would help disguise the tunnel mouths on the right hand side and provide a convenient break between the two scenic treatments.

[Kiran]

I don't think its a matter of right and wrong - more pointing out potential pit falls that may not be initially obvious.

 

Having another think about your problem I believe the main thing you need to concentrate on is getting the reach down.  In order to do this the curves have to be as small radius as possible.  So that means R2 and R3.  With that you need set track spacing and it will look horrible.  So those need to go into a tunnel/behind a back scene.  If you do that then you could have a large scenic area with a similar layout to what you are proposing:

eg

Idea 7.jpg

 

This has five lines in the storage area that can take a four car DMU (though could probably be more if you wanted).  I have just chucked on a depot/TMD but you can fine tune that to whatever you want.  You can operate it with through services or as a straight out and back direct from the storage lines.  If you made the right hand side rolling countryside and the middle and left urban that would help with the tunnels.  A road overbridge would help disguise the tunnel mouths on the right hand side and provide a convenient break between the two scenic treatments.

 

You could do away with double slips especially at the front and just have a ladder of points - that would be more modern looking I think.

 

Cutting the board down is a good idea.

 

Most of your storage lines look too short for a four car DMU.  You could extend them by robbing some more of your scenic area.

 

Thanks for both of your replies. I agree, replacing the double slips is a good idea.

 

About the size of the storage lines, these size of them are as follows (ignoring the ones far left in the curve):

 

2.01m (6 cars)

1.59m (5 cars)

1.16m (3 cars)

0.70m (2 cars)

 

I think this is okay. The sort of stock I'm intending to run is as follows:

 

Class 153 (1 car)

Class 150 (2 cars)

Class 158 (2 cars)

Class 220 (4 cars)

Some short trains, using my class 57 and class 50 (for fun).

 

I do like your idea though since this does give more storage area, and I'm considering adjusting the layout to be more like the one you kindly designed.

[Kiran]

In case anybody was wondering the space/baseboard looks like so far to give some indications of size/room constraints, I've taken some pictures.

 

As you can see the baseboard is quite low down.

 

I can't quite remember the reason why these were the painted white. It was a long time ago.

 

Sorry for the poor quality of the pictures.

 

 

Looking towards where the station would be. The large baseboard at the end does not currently exist:

 

 

Area corresponding to the right hand side of the diagram. The top of the baseboard has been built, it's just downstairs still.

 

 

Overview:

 

 

Where the large baseboard will go if built: Class 220 for scale:

 

 

Class 57 for scale:

[Kiran]

A few updates:

 

1) I have bought some more track, and have been playing around with it. I roughly laid out one of my plans, and wasn't terribly satisfied with it - the TMD seemed awkwardly spaced.

 

2) I have discovered I have a 1m * 1m baseboard section lying around that I totally forgot about.

 

3) For various reasons, the left hand section of baseboard that does not yet exist (2.4m * 1.5m) is no longer feasible. Instead, an additional 2m * 0.79m baseboard will be used.

 

Because of the third reason, I have decided against having a continuous run. Instead, as a compromise, the mainline will be U shaped so the trains can get a decent run.

 

I have come up with the following track plan. The station is now a terminus, and the TMD has been extended. The back part of mainline is approximately 0.8m high, as is the fiddle yard. I have taken some of the suggestions above too, and have removed the double slips. The square shows where there is a pillar in the room.

 

Thoughts as always are welcomed.

 

 

[Kiran]

Some 3D views:

 

[DCB]

I think the inaccessibility of the hidden sidings will be a problem with an end to end, if you run any freight.  You can terminate trains at through stations as mainline railways have been doing since railways began, but cannot just let trains run on a terminus to FY. 

[jon_1066]

Looks good to me.  Like the idea of the raised line at the back providing the backdrop to the layout - should look really good. 

 

One quick question - what is the loop on the line into the station for?

 

You might also want to think about keeping two tracks into the fiddleyard to let you set one train off as another is terminating.

 

David he can't run a continuous run as he has lost running rights for the wider board required on the left hand side.  Compulsory purchase would appear not to be an option in this case!

[Chimer]

You might consider having the FY in full view, in front of and below the terminus with a retaining wall as its backdrop.  You should be able to train your eyes not to see it when you are working the terminus, MPD and goods yard and it will make fiddling much easier.  That would also open up the top right corner to give you room to spread out the MPD and goods yard out a bit.

 

Just a thought.

 

Chris 

[Kiran]

Thanks for all of your replies.

 

 

I think the inaccessibility of the hidden sidings will be a problem with an end to end, if you run any freight.  You can terminate trains at through stations as mainline railways have been doing since railways began, but cannot just let trains run on a terminus to FY. 

 

You bring up a good point, if I understand it correctly. I'm not actually intending to run any freight as of yet, but perhaps I could adjust the left hand side of the depot for freight trains. I'll have a think about it.

 

Looks good to me.  Like the idea of the raised line at the back providing the backdrop to the layout - should look really good. 

 

One quick question - what is the loop on the line into the station for?

 

You might also want to think about keeping two tracks into the fiddleyard to let you set one train off as another is terminating.

 

David he can't run a continuous run as he has lost running rights for the wider board required on the left hand side.  Compulsory purchase would appear not to be an option in this case!

 

The loop was left there from when the station had two through lines and one terminus. This was so a train could wait until the terminus was free. I guess this is no longer need now, but I thought it might still be useful if I realise that I have all the platforms occupied.

 

About the two tracks into the fiddleyard - this is a good idea - but I'm not sure how I'd do this properly. If I added the double slip back in, all the other lines still be blocked apart from the top line in the fiddle yard when a train is incoming.

 

 

You might consider having the FY in full view, in front of and below the terminus with a retaining wall as its backdrop.  You should be able to train your eyes not to see it when you are working the terminus, MPD and goods yard and it will make fiddling much easier.  That would also open up the top right corner to give you room to spread out the MPD and goods yard out a bit.

 

Just a thought.

 

Chris 

 

Could you elaborate? I'm not totally sure what you're saying, are you saying I should swap the fiddle yard and station around? I'm not sure how that frees up my top right corner.

[Chimer]

Yes.  The station and the approach would have the full length of the back wall to play with, so the engine shed sidings could be extended to the right hand wall if you wanted.  The FY would go where the station now is (probably mirrored so the longest track is now at the front).  Your main line would descend from the station throat and all round the loop and along the front to the start of the FY, perhaps dropping about 3"-4" in total.  The curve from the loop to the station approach would have to be a bit tighter than the current curve to the FY in order to give you room behind the approach for the yard tracks, though obviously you could redesign the station layout completely if you wanted (!)

 

I could do a diagram but it would take me a couple of days ......... whereas you can knock 'em off in ten minutes it seems!

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Kiran]

Yes.  The station and the approach would have the full length of the back wall to play with, so the engine shed sidings could be extended to the right hand wall if you wanted.  The FY would go where the station now is (probably mirrored so the longest track is now at the front).  Your main line would descend from the station throat and all round the loop and along the front to the start of the FY, perhaps dropping about 3"-4" in total.  The curve from the loop to the station approach would have to be a bit tighter than the current curve to the FY in order to give you room behind the approach for the yard tracks, though obviously you could redesign the station layout completely if you wanted (!)

 

I could do a diagram but it would take me a couple of days ......... whereas you can knock 'em off in ten minutes it seems!

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

Still confused, how can I extend the engine shed whilst the loop is still there? A loop won't fit anywhere else. Unless I'm still misunderstanding you.

[Chimer]

Like this

 

[jon_1066]

The problem with that is the Shed/Depot still needs to be in the middle.  This is due to the restriction on the depth of the loop.  It really needs to start from close to the back board, hence no room for the shed outside it.

[Chimer]

No it doesn't. The turn back towards the fiddle yard in Kiran's last plan has a substantially greater radius than the turn towards the station, and there's a bit of straight on the right hand side too.  Change those, and the loop can be completed anywhere across the full width of the board using no radius tighter than the tightest originally planned.  

[Kiran]

Like this

 

Kiran2.jpg

 

Thanks, I think I understand now. Like this?:

 

[Chimer]

Yup 

 

I just think that way round offers a little more scope.

[Kiran]

Ah, thanks. It's an interesting design, though I'm less keen on the fact that the main line gets that close to itself when it curves back.

[Chimer]

Ah, thanks. It's an interesting design, though I'm less keen on the fact that the main line gets that close to itself when it curves back.

 

That's true enough, though the tracks to the fiddle yard would be 2" - 3" lower by that point at the bottom of an embankment or retaining wall, so might not look too bad.

[Chimer]

Just to confuse further ...

 

 

No fiddle yard, and a definite snag in that whatever departs to destination A returns from destination B quite soon afterwards, but you could hold one longer train or two shorter ones in the loops to keep them "off-scene" for a bit longer.  I haven't tried to detail the TPD or freight yard as I don't really know how these work in these modern times ...... The longest platform will take a 5 car DMU or 4 car loco-hauled train.  A release crossover might be helpful f you do use loco-hauled.

 

I've done it using Peco Streamline Code 100, with short radius points in the loops and medium elsewhere, and 3rd radius curves as the minimum.  Hopefully I've got the space available right!

 

Feel totally free to ignore.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Kiran]

I think you might be on to something there, that looks pretty good! Do you have the original xtrkcad file (or whatever you used)? If so, please could I grab it so I could have a play around with it?

[Chimer]

I think you might be on to something there, that looks pretty good! Do you have the original xtrkcad file (or whatever you used)? If so, please could I grab it so I could have a play around with it?

 

Hopefully this will work ......

 

Kiran2.xtc

 

If not, PM me your e-mail address and I'll attach it to a standard e-mail.

 

Good luck

 

Chris