Steel Coils rail to road?

[Mr Pix]

Hi guys,

 

Just wanting to know has anyone got information/photos on steel coils when transporetd by road from rail heads,in the 80/90s railfreight era. Did they use flatbed artic trailers or purpose built covered trailers.

 

Presently constructing an N guage 80/early 90s depot layout with a small yard area,will use a pair of the large heavy duty Tomix forklift trucks to unload coils from VTG hood wagons onto a hardstanding or road vehicle. Have a number of the very excellent Tomytec Hino artics which can bo modded.

 

many thanks Jez

[jamie92208]

There used to be a smaal yard just like you describe in Wakefield called Cobafreight. There was a small warehouse and a couple of sidings shunted by an 08. They used standard artics to transport coils as far as I remember with the coils strapped on the back I think 2 per trailer. There was an article that described a model of it some years ago in one of the magazines but I can't remember which mag.

 

Jamie

[Fat Controller]

The hooded trailers are a fairly recent arrival, and really only needed when Cold Reduced Coil is being transported. Prior to that, flat-bed trailers would be used, with timber baulks to hold the coil (s) in position. The coils would be loaded over the trailer axles, and possibly over the 5th wheel coupling. Back in the late 1960s, I remember Rossers of Pontlliw using 8-wheel rigids to haul coil to Trostre, Velindre and Bryngwyn from Abbey Works- not something you'd want to sit behind going up the bank from Morriston. When the smoke cleared, you'd realise that all that was stopping the coil falling off was some 4"x4".

[br2975]

Known variously as 'Canton Mileage Sidings' - 'Turner's Siding' or 'Brickyard Siding' many enthusiasts will be familiar with this view west (down) from the footbridge that led from De Croche Place to Canton Depot.

.

This was the view circa 1989/1990 when the yard was operated (in part) by ISIS Link, where coil was unloaded, as well as aluminium ingots for Alcan at Rogerstone (Gwent).

.

A hired in crane was used to unload the coils on an as and when required basis.

.

A road trailer can be seen centre, loaded with a coil. IIRC some had a well in the middle of the bed to accomodate such loads, and I seem to recall the most common haulier was 'John Raymond' Bridgend.

.

Note the variety of wagon stock.

.

The open sided but covered shelter was built in the mid 1980s when the unloading of Newspaper trains was switched to here from Cardiff Central - it was reasonably short lived as one morning a I came across a "GUV" conversion well ablaze - causing great consternation in Curly Humphries second hand car business alongside !

.

This yard could be the modern image equivalent of an 'Inglenook' shunting puzzle.

.

The 08 (08787 IIRC) is operating the daily 'tripper' from Tidal Sidings.

.

HTH

Brian R

[Mr Pix]

Thanks for replies guys.

 

Will mod Tomytec 40ft tri-axle container skeliton trailers into flatbeds.

 

Does anyone know if cradles were used on flatbed trailers?.

 

thanks Jez

[Mr Pix]

Great image Brian R

 

....thats just what i need,you have hit the nail on head with time period. may have to get a crane though those coils look big!

Like the idea of aluminium ingots will use my BDA bogie bolsters for those,no 08 at present will use 20 instead. Looks like one coil per trailer and no cradel.

 

Many thanks Jez.

[PhilJ W]

I recall seeing a picture or a video of a special fork lift for handling steel coil. The fork lift had a single central fork that lifted the coils through the centre of the coil.

[F-UnitMad]

... may have to get a crane though those coils look big!

A single big coil can weigh in the region of 20 tons; so just the one is almost a full payload for a 38ton Artic, which was the maximum GVW at the time IIRC.

Some dedicated Flatbed trailers had a 'well' in the middle to seat the coil in to help with security. I think the later covered trailers may have the same? (Not in steel haulage myself).

When not hauling coils the well was covered with boards to make a normal flat deck.

[Bernard Lamb]

Steel coil was not allowed to travel on flat bed lorries. Coils had to be loaded into a well. Just think about the force involved with the lorry braking and the energy stored up in a large steel coil. Most drivers would refuse to move any coil loaded on a flatbed. Usually flat bed trailers had a removable section where one or two coils could sit. Very few metal bashers could handle much above ten ton coils although capacity of mandrels increased to around the fifteen ton mark in the 1980s. Most overhead cranes in factories could not handle anything larger. Twenty ton coils to the end user were quite rare. They were usually cut down in width and or length.

Coils were usually handled by overhead cranes using a C hook. Sometimes a converted FLT with a single boom was used. The boom fitted inside the coil.

Bernard

Former Quality Engineer with Dexion and writer of procedures for the handling of steel coils.

[br2975]

Twenty ton coils to the end user were quite rare.

 

e.g. The much lighter tinplate coils from Ebbw vale to Metal Box, (Wisbech, Westhoughton etc) were loaded onto wooden pallets and loaded into air-braked vans using a forklift. I have the loading instructions at home, even then the vans usually held about 3 coils maximum. Others used converted SPA wagons with floor mounted spigots, and a box at one end for wagon sheets etc.

 

Brian R

[28XX]

Slightly off topic, apologies to the o.p., when did the manufacture and trade of steel coil become commonplace?

I assume during the consumer durables boom of the late '50s, but this is just guesswork?

[Fat Controller]

Slightly off topic, apologies to the o.p., when did the manufacture and trade of steel coil become commonplace?

I assume during the consumer durables boom of the late '50s, but this is just guesswork?

I would say you're correct, at least for the UK. The first places to use steel brought in as coil would have been the 'Big Three' tinplate works at Ebbw Vale (1948), Trostre (1951) and Velindre (1956)- these used a continuous dipping process, fed by coils rather than sheets as previously. Initially, the tinplate was cut into pieces and bundled after coating; only in the 1970s was it dispatched to end users as coil. The other big user in the early days was the motor industry, with consumer durables (white goods) taking off towards the end of the 1950s.

If you look at the post-war development of BR wagons, it gives some idea of the changes. BR built a couple of hundred wagons to handle coil in the early 1950s, largely for inter-works traffic in South Wales and Scotland. By the end of the 1950s, these were supplemented by large numbers of ex-WD 'Warflats', followed by large numbers of conversions of other wagons. At its peak, the fleet of dedicated coil-carrying vehicles was probably numbered in thousands, rather than hundreds- photos of terminals such as Wolverhampton in the 1970s give some idea of both the quantity and variety of vehicles involved.

[Jenny Emily]

My Father used to tell me that Metal Box had a 'Mickey Mouse'* Foden eight legger that used to be used to trip coil. I have no idea where it moved it between, as over the years he was based at several Metal Box sites from the late 1960s up to early 1980s. Most of the coils came via rail though as far as I know, delivered straight into the works.

 

*I don't actually know what model of Foden these really are. My Father and everyone else I knew in haulage called them this.

[Jenny Emily]

e.g. The much lighter tinplate coils from Ebbw vale to Metal Box, (Wisbech, Westhoughton etc) were loaded onto wooden pallets and loaded into air-braked vans using a forklift. I have the loading instructions at home, even then the vans usually held about 3 coils maximum. Others used converted SPA wagons with floor mounted spigots, and a box at one end for wagon sheets etc.

 

Brian R

 

Prior to air braked stock, I believe the Metal Box traffic went in Shocvans to minimise the risk of coils shifting in rough shunting.

[PhilJ W]

My Father used to tell me that Metal Box had a 'Mickey Mouse'* Foden

 

*I don't actually know what model of Foden these really are. My Father and everyone else I knew in haulage called them this.

This was a nickname from the shape of the cab. The Corgi Trackside Foden is a 'Mickey Mouse' cab.

[Fat Controller]

My Father used to tell me that Metal Box had a 'Mickey Mouse'* Foden eight legger that used to be used to trip coil. I have no idea where it moved it between, as over the years he was based at several Metal Box sites from the late 1960s up to early 1980s. Most of the coils came via rail though as far as I know, delivered straight into the works.

 

*I don't actually know what model of Foden these really are. My Father and everyone else I knew in haulage called them this.

This would have been the S21, which was one of the first UK commercials to have a moulded glass-fibre cab, rather than a pressed-steel or coach-built one. Here's a link to a photo of one:-

http://ccmv.fotopic.net/p56012407.html

Bassetts of Tittensor ran a fleet of these into the 1980s.

You're correct about the Shocvans- this was when the tinplate was delivered in bundles, wrapped in waxed paper, and banded to wooden stillages. The wagons were branded with 'Return to' instructions- 'Llandilo Junction' (for Trostre) being one, 'Ebbw Vale' another.

[Bernard Lamb]

e.g. The much lighter tinplate coils from Ebbw vale to Metal Box, (Wisbech, Westhoughton etc) were loaded onto wooden pallets and loaded into air-braked vans using a forklift.

 

Brian R

 

In the early days wide coil going to Ebbw Vale was loaded onto flat bed trailers. Many years later the odd coil could be seen a long way from the road where it had parted company from it's trailer. I think that the experience gained from these trips was part of the reason behind the tightening up of procedures. I once saw a coil of about eleven tonnes break loose and it was awesome to see what it demolished before coming to a standstill.

Bernard

[Fat Controller]

In the early days wide coil going to Ebbw Vale was loaded onto flat bed trailers. Many years later the odd coil could be seen a long way from the road where it had parted company from it's trailer. I think that the experience gained from these trips was part of the reason behind the tightening up of procedures. I once saw a coil of about eleven tonnes break loose and it was awesome to see what it demolished before coming to a standstill.

Bernard

There were certainly a few accidents around the Swansea area due to coils breaking free, including ones where they rolled back when the lorry was going up a hill. Fortunately, things have been tightened up greatly on that front over the years, though there are still mishaps with loads moving- I just missed being involved in that one with the Challenger tank on the M4 a few years ago.

[br2975]

Prior to air braked stock, I believe the Metal Box traffic went in Shocvans to minimise the risk of coils shifting in rough shunting.

 

There were many, many 'Shocvans' allocated to South Wales tinplate trafficintended to service the older and smaller tinplate works, which progressively closed in the 1950s when Trostre, Velindre & Ebbw Vale were developed...... they were redeployed from South Wales as the older works closed, and the new works received, and shipped tinplate in coils.

.

The 'Shocvans' were usually branded "Empty to Felin Fran - Western Region" or other locations included

Ebbw Vale,

Taffs Well (for the Melingriffith works, closed Oct.1957);

Morriston East (Duffryn works, closed 1953, Upper Forest & Worcester works closed March.1958;

Bynea,

Pontardulais (Teilo works closed Oct.1957 & Clayton works closed Nov.1957, Glynhir works, closed 1961);

Neath;

Port Talbot (Byass works);

Briton Ferry (Baglan Bay works, closed 1956);

Pembrey;

Swansea King's Dock (for Elba works, closed 1953 & King's Dock Works, closed 1957);

Llanelly (numerous works in a town also known as 'Tinopolis');

Llandilo Jct.;

Lydney Town (works closed 1957);

Pontypool Crane St.(Pontypool works closed June 1957, Avondale, Pontnewynydd works closed 1958), .

.

These older works produced tinplate in boxes of 112 sheets, called 'basis boxes'.

.

Production was as follows......older hot mills normally commenced work at 0600 Monday morning and continued through to midday the following Saturday.

 

This gave a working week of 15 x 8hrs shifts, and 1 x 6hrs. shift (Saturday).

 

Normal output was about 1,000 basis boxes per mill per week, or about 62 basis boxes per mill per shift.

 

A basis box contained on average 112 sheets.

 

1 ton of steel bar yielded 16cwt. 71lbs of blackplate, with the shearings being sold back to the steelworks as scrap.

 

Say 1 basis box = 1 cwt. Then,

 

1 mill produces 3.1/4 tons per 8hrs shift (from 4 tons of blackplate).

or 9.3/4 tons per 24hr day (from 12 tons of blackplate).

or 50 tons per week (from 62.1/2 tons of blackplate).

.

Try to get hold a book called "Twenty by Fourteen" for an excellent history of the South Wales tinplate industry, I've no doubt 'the other Brian' has read it ?

 

Brian R

[Fat Controller]

There were many, many 'Shocvans' allocated to South Wales tinplate trafficintended to service the older and smaller tinplate works, which progressively closed in the 1950s when Trostre, Velindre & Ebbw Vale were developed...... they were redeployed from South Wales as the older works closed, and the new works received, and shipped tinplate in coils.

.

The 'Shocvans' were usually branded "Empty to Felin Fran - Western Region" or other locations included

Ebbw Vale,

Taffs Well (for the Melingriffith works, closed Oct.1957);

Morriston East (Duffryn works, closed 1953, Upper Forest & Worcester works closed March.1958;

Bynea,

Pontardulais (Teilo works closed Oct.1957 & Clayton works closed Nov.1957, Glynhir works, closed 1961);

Neath;

Port Talbot (Byass works);

Briton Ferry (Baglan Bay works, closed 1956);

Pembrey;

Swansea King's Dock (for Elba works, closed 1953 & King's Dock Works, closed 1957);

Llanelly (numerous works in a town also known as 'Tinopolis');

Llandilo Jct.;

Lydney Town (works closed 1957);

Pontypool Crane St.(Pontypool works closed June 1957, Avondale, Pontnewynydd works closed 1958), .

.

These older works produced tinplate in boxes of 112 sheets, called 'basis boxes'.

.

Production was as follows......older hot mills normally commenced work at 0600 Monday morning and continued through to midday the following Saturday.

 

This gave a working week of 15 x 8hrs shifts, and 1 x 6hrs. shift (Saturday).

 

Normal output was about 1,000 basis boxes per mill per week, or about 62 basis boxes per mill per shift.

 

A basis box contained on average 112 sheets.

 

1 ton of steel bar yielded 16cwt. 71lbs of blackplate, with the shearings being sold back to the steelworks as scrap.

 

Say 1 basis box = 1 cwt. Then,

 

1 mill produces 3.1/4 tons per 8hrs shift (from 4 tons of blackplate).

or 9.3/4 tons per 24hr day (from 12 tons of blackplate).

or 50 tons per week (from 62.1/2 tons of blackplate).

.

Try to get hold a book called "Twenty by Fourteen" for an excellent history of the South Wales tinplate industry, I've no doubt 'the other Brian' has read it ?

 

Brian R

Not yet, bach, but I shall....

I thought Clayton carried on into the 1960s?

Tinplate's in my blood- dad started at Cwmfelin in 1926, working as labourer for his grandfather, before becoming a roll-turner, then fitter and turner. For my sins, my middle name is that of the former works engineer at Trostre, who trained with dad.

When dad went to work for his uncle's firm, they did a lot of work refitting old tin mills as warehousing for SCOW (as it then was)- they did Elba, KIngs Dock, Duffryn and Burry works.

All long gone, I fear- that was in the days when tinplate from Swansea was shipped all over the world.

[br2975]

Not yet, bach, but I shall....

I thought Clayton carried on into the 1960s?

Tinplate's in my blood- dad started at Cwmfelin in 1926, working as labourer for his grandfather, before becoming a roll-turner, then fitter and turner. For my sins, my middle name is that of the former works engineer at Trostre, who trained with dad.

When dad went to work for his uncle's firm, they did a lot of work refitting old tin mills as warehousing for SCOW (as it then was)- they did Elba, KIngs Dock, Duffryn and Burry works.

All long gone, I fear- that was in the days when tinplate from Swansea was shipped all over the world.

 

 

Brian,

.

I have spent a little time researching the tinplate works of Wales and the borders (i.e Lydney and the Wye Valley), especially in connection with their railway systems, sidings and locos and have about 60 pages worth of notes.

 

My notes on Clayton (from several sources incl. IRS) ....

.

CLAYTON SN 589040

Pontardulais, West Glamorgan.

1875 - Nov. 1957.

7 Mills 7,600 boxes per week.

 

Clayton Tinplate Co until /1953

Subsidiary of Richard Thomas & Baldwins Ltd until /1953.

Subsidiary of Richard Thomas & Co. Ltd from 7/1936 until 3/1/1945

Pontardulais Tinplate Co until 11/1883

 

Works established 1875, located just to the east of Pontardulais station. Works closed 19/9/1957; site acquired by Evans & Williams, Engineers.

 

And also for Cwmfelin....... (again from several sources, incl. IRS)

.

CWMFELIN SS 653947

Swansea, West Glamorgan. GW p.136

1858 - Mar. 1948.

15 Mills 15,900 boxes per week.

 

Richard Thomas & Co Ltd until 3/1/1945

Cwmfelin Steel & Tinplate Co Ltd until 1/10/1917

Swansea Tinplate Co until 7/1905

Cwmfelin Tinplate Co until 4/1896

 

Tinplate works south of the GWR main line west of Landore station, established 1858 by David Davies & Son (until 8/1868), with an open hearth steel works being added in 1905. The Cwmfelin Steel & Tinplate Co had their own direct private railway (which passed under the GWR main line) from the works north to their Mansell Colliery (SS 646959) and Cefngyfelach Colliery. Many of the tinplate mills were closed in 1931 and removed over the next five years. The buildings were then used to house power presses to make fabricated products. During WWII this production was increased to deal with MoS orders for jerrycans and ammunition carriers. Extensions continued until 1966. The Steel and Basic Slag works closed 1957; The remaining works (known as the Cwmfelin Press Works) passed to the British Steel Corporation.

.

All long gone, I fear- that was in the days when tinplate from Swansea was shipped all over the world.

.

The rot set in many years ago with American protectionism in the form of the 'McKinley Tariff' (he became president on the strength of it) whereby imported tinplate (predominantly from Wales)was subject to a duty that made US produced tinplate more attractive to their own market. Hence the migration of many Welsh tinplate workers to the US, in particular Pennsylvania.

 

(The other) Brian ®

[Arthur]

Slightly off topic, apologies to the o.p., when did the manufacture and trade of steel coil become commonplace?

I assume during the consumer durables boom of the late '50s, but this is just guesswork?

 

 

A brief history of the U.K.'s coil manufacturing capacity will help answer that.  As Brian has already confirmed, the trade grew hugely in the late 1950's and early 1960's.

 

The first continuous hot strip mill in the U.K. was opened by Richard Thomas and Baldwin in 1938 at the newly rebuilt Ebbw Vale works. In order to justify the huge investment RTB had to guarantee it's markets and so bought up many of the smaller tinplate works in South Wales and then closed them down. The anticipated growth in consumer demand, especially for cars and white goods, saw John Summers at Shotton, already in the steel sheet trade, open the second continuous hot strip mill in 1939/40 and The Steel Company of Wales added the third, at Port Talbot, in the early 1950's.

 

It was commonly held that the U.K. could support four such mills and R.T.B. planned to build the fourth, with a whole new iron and steel works, at Llanwern. Unfortunately politicians became involved and there were demands to build it in Scotland, to provide jobs, and to roll strip for the new white goods and car manufacturing plants then being built there. A VERY reluctant Colvilles, with their new Ravenscraig plant, were drawn into this debacle and the outcome was that both works built semi-continuous hot strip mills in the early 1960's. This was an madness, though these mills were cheaper to build they were more expensive to run, and having two mills essentially split their potential customer base. Colvilles lost £5,000,000 in the first year and Llanwern, though a technical triumph, was an economic disaster. The taxpayer eventually bailed both of them out through nationalisation in 1967.

 

Subsequent changes in global steel supply, more modern mills and ever greater outputs from single works, saw Ebbw Vales mill close in 1977, Shottons in 1980, Ravenscraig in 1990 and Llanwern in 2009 leaving Port Talbot as the U.K's sole manufacturer of hot rolled steel strip (coil). 

 

 

 

Arthur

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

Getting a long way from the OT, but to follow on from the last post by Arthur.

LLanwern might well have been a technical triumph when new. However world events rapidly overtook it. Concast steel manufacture came in and then the requirements of industry changed and thinner gauges were needed, rolled to tighter tolerances. These changes required injections of large sums in OTTOMH the early 70s and late 80s. The revelation of using Japanese steel for the first time after years of conditioning by what was available from the home mills was mind blowing. The change in the motor trade to galvanized material also contributed to the downturn in the fortunes of british produced steel. Things did improve in this area but the availability of good quality pre galv coil probably came too late to save the situation. The steel companies spent a fortune on transport making steel at one mill and rolling and slitting it at another site. Blame the politicians for that. Their interference also led to a policy of sharing orders between the mills. This would result in a mill supplying a customer whose specific requirements were not known.

The Llanwern/Port Talbot development or closure decision was compounded by the fact that one was a more modern and technically better mill, while the other had better facilities for handling ore. All in all avery sad story.

Bernard

[Arthur]

The story of Llanwerns lack of ore wharf facilities, which were a part of the original plan, is long and complex.  The U.K.'s most modern steel mill, and the first built on a greenfield site since 1913/1914 (Normanby Park and Irlam), was sited on the coast to make use of cheap imported ore. It may as well have been built 60 miles inland as, to all of it's operational costs, had to be added the 60 mile ore rail haul from Port Talbot. This haul added 0.88p per ton of ore or £1.50 per ton of finished steel. 

 

This thread on the old RMweb has a fuller account;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37439&p=574978&hilit=+llanwern#p574978

 

 Certainly continuous casting was not a viable technology when Llanwern opened but had developed within a few years, and it was only delays in finance and building which gave time for the then new Basic Oxygen steelmaking process to be adopted rather than the originally planned open hearths.

[Mr Pix]

Thanks all,very informative.

 

Jez.