N gauge end to end ideas

[Black Sheep]

For the past five years i have been ''building'' a layout in 2mm finescale and to this end have two trains worth of carriages (compartment and corridor LMS), a black five, an ivatt and a 4F and a couple of trucks made by my brother (a member of the 2mm society) I think I also have a length of rail somewhere.

 

recently I've been encouraged by the customers in the shop I now work in, (selling about 10 farish locos) to get on with something, and so I'm planning an end to end layout that is almost a display for my rollingstock, intended to be cheap to build and just enjoyable to play about with.

 

It's intended to be set in 1948ish, that way if I see an early BR loco that I like I don't have to play about swapping transfers over to make it LMS - but some days I might give in to how gorgeous a deltic looks and claim it to be a preserved line.

 

I've attached my trackplan, which at the moment is just a quick sketch, the station is at the left hand side, with a goods siding (with shed) - the turntable having been placed where it is to fit into the 1ft x 8ft space I have. The back story to that is the turntable is a later addition to save large tender locos reversing down the line to the next station to turn.

 

basically, trains come in, loco runs round, pulls the train out of the station, switching to the other line as it exits the station.

 

the blue is a canal and wharf, which meets the railway, just to give some railway focus to the scenery.

 

I'd love to fit a carriage siding or even shed in, but don't think there is room and would prefer the goods shed if i have to choose.

 

I'm currently playing with some old wallpaper and a pencil, but wanted to see what people thought, any suggestions that people might have for the operationability of the layout etc

 

thanks

[Dave777]

Two things that spring to my mind - the crossover next to the turntable should be round the other way I think. Train arrives on the lower of the two lines (as we look at the plan), then has to go forward, then back, then forward again to reach the turntable. Others are more up on prototypical things than I am, but having the crossover the other way removes the back and forth movements.

 

The other thing is that the quay siding (and the other siding you have there - bay platform?) can't be shunted without blocking the incoming line. You might want to include these on a loop coming off the line (also provides runround facilities for shunting)

 

Finally... do you need double track? While I'm sure there are actual examples, the station seems small as a terminus at the end of a double track line. You could go for single track, although running tender locos might then seem a little overkill for such a trundling line. Horses for courses on that particular issue I think.

 

 

 

At a foot wide you should have a good feeling of space though as you've not crowded it out with tracks. The right hand end in particular should create a decent 'railway in the landscape' look.

 

 

[Edwin_m]

A facing crossover on the approach would allow goods trains to run into the upper track which presumably doesn't have a platform, run round when the platform is empty and shunt into the canal siding.

[Black Sheep]

I've been speaking to someone from the railway club I was part of many years ago who says that there were examples of small stations like this that did away with the crossover and just had the two lines converge on the turntable, using that to switch the engines across.

 

I want to keep the two line set up as I've only ever had single line layouts with a run around

 

I've been advised by Jamie to put a second siding on the goods yard (no bay platform on the above plan) and myself have thought, the railway wouldn't want to loose a brake van to the wharf siding while it was loaded, so a brake van trap might be a good idea.

 

 

the bridge I have for over the river can be built to take three lines as it's a wills kit that has the option for twin lines of 00 or single 00, meaning, built up in single line form, gives me double road in N, and built in double road 00 gives tripple line in N so possibility of fitting a line in between the operating lines.

 

at the moment I've got the turntable a bit more than a third in from the right with the station to the left of it on my planning downstairs but it makes things a little tight so may well revert to it's original position

 

the turntable I'm going to be using is the Peco N guage kit - although I've found a bucket in the house that's never been used and would make a well big enough to turn my black 5 but make a smaller turntable than the peco one.

 

should I just build my own?...

[Sir Madog]

As others have stated, the terminus is a little "light" for a two-line branch in the days of steam operation. I´d add one more run around, a service track for the engines and a 1 or two stall engine shed and a goods shed.

 

I assume that you will add a fiddle yard to the right of the layout. Make sure that you can actually turn the trains there, either by a train turntable or the classic 0-5-0

[Black Sheep]

Hi Madog,

 

Yeh, the trackwork has increased, been into work today and aquired two lengths of flexi track which give me a better idea of the space i'm dealing with (never owned this much N gauge track before!

 

It's all code 80 as I have some older stock I want to be sure runs without a problem, using medium turnouts as minimum radius (avoiding set track)

 

I'll sketch a new trackplan and attach it later.

[Black Sheep]

Sorry to do this as a double post, but feel its easier to have the track plan above what I'm writing now.

 

the turntable is now being used to both turn the loco round and also switch it between tracks, the plan is to use the Peco N gauge table for this although I am tempted to make my own as I know I can then make it smaller.

 

from the turntable there is a single (could go double) road for loco service, basically coal and water, somewhere to sit a loco that's not headed straight back out.

this would also give the interesting service run of a small loco with a couple of coal waggons (after all, why would the railway pay to use a lorry to shift it?)

 

the goods shed sits alongside the station, allowing the goods line to be used as a bay if needed.

 

the second goods line is just that, a second goods line, somewhere to be used to make up trains / put a train ready to go out

 

the head shunt is there to be used as a trap for a brake van before putting the coal wagons alongside the wharf.

(the back story here is that the canal boats actually almost meet the coal face, making it cheaper to continue bringing it out by barge and transfr to rail)

 

 

I'm thinking it needs another cross over near the bridge to get a goods train onto the correct line out or just move the station crossing to the other side of the goods road, however, a second crossing would allow for running round a goods train before pushing it into the yard

 

just a quick question, how do I put a goods train in without getting the loco stuck - I do have to run it round first don't I?

[Sir Madog]

You do

[Black Sheep]

I new I wasn't being stupid

 

Thank you all for the feedback so far, I want to be sure I get a good working track layout and don't find myself wanting to rip the track up and re-lay it part way through!

 

what do you think of the new trackplan?

[Edwin_m]

Without the extra crossover I suggested above, both passenger and goods would have to arrive into the platform track. This could be restrictive. If you add this then the platform could go on the far track and goods could be propelled back into the canal wharf or run round and put in the other sidings. You also need to assemble an outgoing train in the same place, otherwise the loco gets trapped behind the brake van. I think all this would work better if the connection to the goods yard was trailing rather than facing to arriving trains.

[Black Sheep]

Hi Edwin,

 

I'm a little confused as to where you suggest placing it now that I've moved a lot of point work about,

 

the facing crossover would put a train into the north platform (top) but where should it be positioned in the pointwork?

 

If you'd be so kind to modify my jpg, even a red line added in paint would be appreciated.

 

 

at the moment I'm trying to figure out winrail, but can't seem to get any library other than Hornby 00

[Edwin_m]

I'd suggest a facing crossover and a trailing yard access as shown, maybe extend the brake van trap to make a bit of a headshunt. The trailing crossover could move outwards to avoid the three-way point!

 

[Black Sheep]

Hi Edwin, thanks for getting back to me

 

 

I'm not so sure on that as the cross over I have already is as close to the station platforms as I can without it fowling the maximum length of train I want to run (not very accurately measured i have to admit) and I'm getting worried about keeping the gradient down to the wharf as easy as I can.

 

I will look into it while planning and see what it looks like laid out

 

thanks.

[Edwin_m]

Thanks, found it while you were posting your reply!

[Black Sheep]

and you've just posted while I was editing mine!

[PWSlack]

Hi Madog,

 

Yeh, the trackwork has increased, been into work today and aquired two lengths of flexi track which give me a better idea of the space i'm dealing with (never owned this much N gauge track before!

 

It's all code 80 as I have some older stock I want to be sure runs without a problem, using medium turnouts as minimum radius (avoiding set track)

 

I'll sketch a new trackplan and attach it later.

 

From a design and workability perspective the turntable location is troublesome. Scaling up to a prototype: in the event of a breakdown the whole service comes to a grinding halt.

 

Three examples of stations ending in a turntable come immediately to mind: Alton, Bembridge and Ventnor, and all of these are single-line termini.

 

Locos working tender-first on single lines are commonplace - provided they aren't 4-6-2s or 2-10-0s, that is. Larger locos working longer distances would be turned; smaller locos might not, which sort-of rules out the double line terminus concept. A rhetorical question might ask "where is all the traffic coming from that might require a turntable for the larger tender loco at such a relatively small station? An Ivatt (2-6-0?) and a 4F would be seen working tender first; a black 5 would be less likely.

 

Mildenhall is an example of a quiet country station that had a turntable for the 0-6-0s and 2-4-0s that worked the single line, and the Colne Valley route was certianly worked tender-first with Ivatt and standard 2 2-6-0s. It is commonplace for a turntable to be placed in a separate siding so that, in the event of a breakdown, the traffic can still be worked tender-first.

 

Most of the tender loco traffic on the former Somerset Central Railway was worked chimney first as there were turntables at both Highbridge and Evercreech Junction. It was single line throughout.

[Black Sheep]

holmfirth and rothbury are two examples that apparently had this arrangement.

my reason for the station being so large and handling 5 coach trains is that It serves a small costal resort town. My favorite loco in my collection is my black 5 so I want to be able to run that often.

the back story to what happens if something brakes down traffic wise, is that another engine would drag it out of the way, possibly pushing it onto the table, turning it and it being winched onto one of the loco lines using gear normally intended for moving wagons.

[Sir Madog]

Blacksheep - I am still not sure what to make out of this plan. In terms of operation, a single line would suffice, as the second track appears to be more cosmetic, not really adding to interest, just looks. At the station, you can only handle one train at a time, due to the lack of an additional run-around. If you´d include that, the double-track line makes more sense to me.

[Flying Pig]

Rothbury station here.

 

I agree you'd be better off with a single line branch - as Sir Madog says, your station can't really handle the extra capacity of double track. If you're worried about your bridge, either build another, or claim that the line was intended as a grand cross country route that was never completed due to lack of funds.

 

Anyway, for what it's worth, here's my version:

 

[Black Sheep]

my thoughts are that the station can handle two trains at once, but it would require either a loco to shunt the coaches across or an extra switch and some swapping of point work, which I've now done.

 

trains can come up and switch into the north platform, run round and go out on the correct line

 

local train can come up into the south platform, wait for the other train to head off, and then run round it.

 

this also gives a run round for a goods train.

 

 

as you can tell, while I really appreciate the help and advice you're giving, I am determined for it to be two tracks and two platforms, possibly using the end of the goods road as a bay but more likely putting some cattle pens there.

[Sir Madog]

Give me the overall dimensions of your layout and I will draw up a track plan for you

 

You are using Peco code 80 track, small or medium points?

[Black Sheep]

it's 8ft x 1ft, Peco code 80, medium points

 

 

the longest length of train I plan to put in the station is about 77cm including loco.

not sure how high the bridge I have is, the wife wrapped it for my birthday so I can't measure it but that only affects the length of the wharf so thats fine.

 

Thank you Sir Madog - if you need any signs or graphic designy stuff doing don't hesitate to ask!

 

 

[Sir Madog]

Just the first draft:

 

Reminds me somehow of the "Minories" design with a turntable added... B)

 

But where to put the bridge?

[Black Sheep]

Thanks Sir Madog,

 

I'm a bit worried about fitting the bridge (three arch viaduct) in to the right, before the tunnel mouth scenic break,

 

 

could make the distance between turning off the main line into the goods area longer, moving it all left so that the goods shed road ends level with the two circles, this would pull the head shunt and wharf line across to the left

 

 

I know the diameter of the turntable's well is 155mm, is it possible to nudge everything to the left? the loco services only needs to be long enough for a single loco

 

thanks

[Sir Madog]

Second draft:

 

 

Coming along ...

 

I will be out for the day - back tomorrow afternoon!