0121modeller's workbench

As part of the scrapyard theme for my forthcoming layout, I became interested in several types of scrapwagons.

I have a dozen POA / SSA 51 ton wagons & a few MBA's from Bachmann.

I became interested in the PXA & JXA bogie wagons used by Sheerness steel, but they're not available RTR or kit form, so, I decided scratchbuilding the bodies would be easy enough, the bogies for the 54ft PXA I obtained from Bachmann 100 tonne fuel tankers, but obtaining the bogies for the JXA wagon presented a small problem finding a supplier, so I obtained a few dozen photo's of JXA, PXA wagons, schierlen bogies from the Paul Bartlett photo website,

Also, a big thanks to RMWeb member; Southernman46 for his help & usefull information link he gave

I decided to take on scratchbuiding Schierlen bogies, & I've made sufficient achievements with this as to post my progress so far...;

I studied all my photo's of both the scrapwagon with Scherlian bogies & a close up photo of a Scherlien bogie fitted to a 100 tonne fuel tanker type wagon

I decided to use Evergreen #4502 embossed sheet styrene, the recessed lines & spaced squares make its so much easier to mark measurements, score & break to precision as required, I've used a boardmarker as to show up the recess more clearly,

I studied my photos & other information & came to a conclusion for the size of bogie, I'm probably within 2mm give or take- so that 6 inches thereabouts of accurate scale size.

Using Evergreen strip #135, duplicates of 2 sizes were cut to excact duplicate lengths using my NWSL Chopper, angled cuts to lower portion of girder cut after stright cuts had been done,

cut componants of styrene Evergreen #135 were welded together,

Excess trimmed off with knife,

Cut down surlpus with my NWSL chopper, nice & accurately done, each one has to be exactly the same,

I carefully positioned lower portion of girder, welded them with plastic weld, allowed them to dry & then fitted them onto the #4502 backing plate using tiny spots of Revel Contacta....

When dry, I used styrene strip Evergreen #123 (0.5mm x 1.5mm) to follow around the profile of #135 (0.75mm x 2.5mm) as to make odd shape girder design of bogies, applied & complete as seen below;

Press studs make ideal handbrake wheels, in this case, the 6mm size is especially suited to the scale size and design of handbrake wheel that are on some scrapwagons, I have photo's showing them fitted with Scherlien bogies,

You may have noticed, the position of the handbrake wheel on my modelling is incorrect, but its not glued into place, its only to give an idea of how suited the 6mm press stud resembles the handbrake wheel as seen on JXA scrapwagons fitted with schierlen bogies.

I've already started on next stage, I need to be sure certain bogie width & wheel fitment / clearance measurements are correct before I assemble certain areas with plastic weld, commit photos etc,,

To be continued...

Continued progress from above,,,

Yesterday evening, I spent time toying the idea of how to construct the top portion of bogies that hold the bogie sideframes together & fit to chassis when required, the top plate shown is one of a few different size plates, its gives a basic idea of what I have in mind, although its still at an experimental stage regarding which size plate to use.

Either the Plastruct BFS10 or BFS12 girder profile will play an important part to holding together the bogie sideframes & top, all will be revealled in my later posts...

The 3mm diameter x 4mm grubscrews I had ordered arrived

I reckon the grub screws give a fairly good representation of coil springs, but even after fileing they still prodrude outside of bogie girder, they need to be level with the outer girder frame flange, so...,

due to the grub screw protrudeing too far out wide from underneath bogie girder, the area's marked green will be removed from each bogie side frame as to allow more recess for "coil springs" (grub screws) ,,

Duplicate componants from Evergreen #4502 were made & 2mm holes drilled in each of them for brass bearings, these are to replace the removed area's as explained above,

To be continued...

Continued progress from above,

I removed the area's I've marked with green pen,

Removeing the last of green shaded area's. , The new axle holder / backing pieces for coil springs (grub screws) were then fitted onto the rear of #4502 main side frames.

Achieveing accurate alignment was easy quick & accurate, as the embossed recessed lines gives a natural guide to this, I've highlighted the recessed lines with a drywipe board marker for clarity - I strongly recomend the versatility & usage of the Evergreen embossed card range for this sort of thing- I've used Evergreen sheet #4502 mostly for this project so far.

For the bracket, I decided to use cut sections of Plastruct BFS12 rather than BFS10, modified them & drilled 2mm holes dead centre of these & the #4502 base plate.

the bracket & base componant bolted together with M2 x 6mm bolts & nuts. The #4502 base plate itself will be strengthened with styrene strip lengthways & crossways.... I get quite obsessive about things I make & I've a habit of over-engineering things like this...

Using Evergreen #4502, several plates were marked up for cutting out, the Plastruct BFS12 pieces were modified with a file & a 3mm hole was drilled dead centre of #4502 plates,

Evergreen strip #151 (1.5mm x 1.5mm) was cut placed both sides where shown - this would strengthen and also prevent pivoted movement of bogie side frames as each bogie sideframe needs to stay rigid to #4502 baseplate & held in by M2 x 6mm bolts,

It is intended that the side frames can slide out for whatever reason.

Test fitting the brackets is shown in above photo, all is good to go , so both brackets were welded to inner sideframes, as seen in photo below,

I still need to apply other detailing to the bogie sidefrrames, handbrake wheel (6mm press stud), coil springs (grub screws) , and apply other specific feature detail to the girders.

With those modified BFS12 now welded onto innerside of side frame, I'll need to drill an 8mm clearance hole in a scrap piece of plywood as to enable me to add detail to the bogie sideframes when they're dis-connected.

To be continued...

Latest progress with this, I really want to make a start on scratchbuilding the chassis & bodywork , so decided to just make 2 Scherlien bogies instead of 4, ,

I made the rear girderlike frames & attatched these to centre plate rather than bogie sideframes

I painted the handbrake wheels white (I've used the male part of size 6mm press studs)

To enable me to spray these press studs effectively without the pressure of spraycan blowing them away & so risk looseing them, I drilled 1.5mm holes in a piece of spare wood & pushed the press studs into holes as to keep them in place whilst I sprayed them,

Sprayed up white, the 6mm press stud give a fairly good representation of the type of handbrake wheels seen on many photos of PR3100 type scrapwagons fitted with Scherlien bogies as seen on Paul Bartletts photo website.

Photo below; - I added more fiddly detail to the bogie side frames & glued those grubscrews in place with "Revel Contacta Special" solution.

1.5mm holes were drilled into each side frames , the two bogies will have a handbrake wheel on one side of bogie, on the bogie sides that does'nt have a handbrake wheel I've drilled a 1mm hole into a 1.5mm square plate & fitted them on where the option of fitting a handbrake that side would go,

Bogie side frames & front end frame girders were sprayed up using Halfords red oxide plastic primer, allowing to fully dry overnight ready for painting black / brown / rust, then assembling sides to top frames & fitting those handbrake wheels,

I'm keen to start scratchbuilding the chassis & bodywork !

The bogies now completed;

I'll start building the bodywork later today.

Interesting job, well done.

I know its a bit late now but two versions of this bogie are available from appleby

Simon

I know its a bit late now but two versions of this bogie are available from appleby

 

 

Simon

Ouch!

I enjoyed reading this, excellent scratchbuilding skills. I hope the realisation that these are available from a proprietor isn't too annoying, many of us have been there.......

I've tried to contact appleby , but no joy.

available from

J. Talbot

10 St. Dunstans Close

Battenhall

Worcester

WR5 2AJ

Cheques payable to J. Talbot

Got a few orders of John over past year, all being prompt

HTH

Simon

Thanks for the info chaps,

I sent a letter to John Talbot last month via; P.O.box 104 Worcester WR5 2YZ , but got no reply, so maybe wrong address as its a different address to above ?.

Another source of scherlien bogies (Intercity Models) said he was out of stock & needed to cast some more, but I did'nt follow that one up.

I'll follow the Colin Craig lead up though, as, out of interest I'd like to compare my version with whats available.

I've decided to finish building the 2nd pair of Scherlien bogies I'd already started, then I'll start scratchbuilding the body & chassis for 2x PR3100 type JXA Sheerness scrapwagons.

Just found this thread - two great ideas for the price of one: the recessed styrene and press-studs for handbrake wheels!

Nice to see some scratchbuilding, keep up the good work

Cheers,

Will

Just found this thread - two great ideas for the price of one: the recessed styrene and press-studs for handbrake wheels!

 

Nice to see some scratchbuilding, keep up the good work

 

Cheers,

 

Will

Thanks Will, the 3x4mm grub screws to represent the coil springs are also a fairly good likeness I thought, as ideally they're available in different lengths/sizes.

The 6mm press stud was a stroke of luck being scale size & that particular style of 4 spoke handbrake wheel as seen on many Sheerness Steel 63ft scrapwagons.

& yes, Evergeen embossed styrene sheet (various sizes of tile & sidewalk) saves so much time in marking up, almost eliminates the need to use a tri-square & pencil, minimum effort when cutting, great for making templates & spacers for assembly jigs - as shown in my next update...

... yes, I decided to complete the other pair of bogies I'd started & added more detail I'd overlooked, So now I've started to scratchbuild two 63ft sheerness scrapwagons.

The bodywork for these is still very much in the early stages of "trial & error", but its looking good, with a tiny problem now resolved on how best & easiest to include a tiny but essential detail feature to the external lower braceings near to solebars.

I will post my progress & photo's of this in my next posting to this thread in a day or two.

Cheers,

Dave.

I decided to complete the other pair of bogies that I'd started , as to enable me to build 2x Sheerness Steel scrapwagons of the same general design (series PR3100 -50)

I have a Railway Modeller article about building similar scrapwagons..., the author advises using 0.40 thou thick plasticard for bodysides(1.0mm thick) , but I decided this was too *thick* (*scalewise), so I opted to use 0.30 thou (0.75mm) using 0.30 thou would be easier to create dents, tears & bulges in the "metal" to the slightly thinner styrene sheet, also, I'd estimate the thickness of steel on real examples to be approx 1/2" thick - the 3"x4" vertical brace supports giveing the "main strength" externally, I've used #144 for vertical braceings, the top horizontal bracer is a #154 - as seen on the real examples (Paul Bartlett website & photo's) horizontal top bracer appears slightly proud of the vertical bracers.

For the solebar , I used an Evergreen #137 & added some angled pieces for both lower ends,

The jig I made for spacing of vertical stiffeners, as I'm building more than one scrapwagon of this type they need to be correctly positioned & it also saves time in the long run, especially if I later decided to build a few of them !

Notice that the 1st & 2nd spaceings on both ends are slightly wider than those inbetween which are 10 equal spaceings - as on my spaceing jig.

The underside view of my jig for spaceing of vertical stiffeners, - notice how I've added 0.4mm thick strip to the bottom with edge clearance - this is to help prevent the jig becomeing un-intentionally stuck when stiffeners are put into place with Revel Contacta (or similar solvent as to weld styrene),

I used a lightweight G-clamp to hold the bodyside vertically in position as for me to add detailing, (#123 & 126)

enough Evergreen #126 were chopped to 3mm for the detailing on stiffeners , #123 were cut at 12mm as to fit inbetween each of these, beneath this will be the solebar componant - as seen in other photo,

At this stage, a cut-out was made for the door/hatch on end of wagon,

Next, the cut-out will have a backing framework probably using #124, then a hatch/door will be fitted.

To be continued....

Quality work......

the bogies look great - grub screws - (why couldn't I think of that !!)..........Have also been scratching head for the best way to do the detail at the solebar end of the uprights - you seem to have cracked it

Thanks Southernman46 , its thanks to your thread & help that I've progressed this far

More progress on the scratchbuilding of the bodysides, here's how I did them...

Various pots & containers were obtained as to store duplicate cuts of many different components,

Duplicates of evergreen #144 were cut to 2mm, some were cut at 3.5mm , these were welded onto solebar as shown, notice the 2nd bracing thats in-line with the centre of each bogie I've used a #144 cut at 3.5mm.

A hatch / door backing frame was made using #129 & 124, another #129 will be positioned over this to represent the hatch/door that will be detailed with hinges etc at a later stage using tiny Evergreen microstrips,

On the reverse side, I lightly tacked a spare #149 , this temporary #149 would be so the whole item would be kept flat whilst I worked upon the outer lower sides.

Notice that Ive made a small cut- out of the #149 at the hatch/door areas of each side panel, - pointless having a door / hatch the other side if cut-out ins'nt included !

So, as to re-iterate, solebar is #137 (0.30 thou thickness/ 0.75mm x 4.0mm), - the backing for this is a #149 (1.0mm x 6.3mm) as to enable joining reverse of solebar to reverse of bottom bodyside, also re-enforceing the angled area, the #149 cut short 6.3mm each end of length of solebar, so the 6.3 pieces needed can go vertically so it goes over the angled piece & join for maximum strength, trim the angle of #149 to suit the same as solebar profile when fully dry.

More duplicates of Evergreen #126 was cut on my Chopper, this time at 2mm for the lower most of #144 verticle braceings on the solebar seen here,

The sides & ends of the wagons will fit on the outside of the floor/chassis, this here is position just to give me an idea of what it'll look like,

The height of the wagon sides at approx 10'6" seemed to look right positioned next to a Bachmann MBA ,

To be continued...

Just a small update on this;

I decided to start on my 3rd body, but this body having different bogies fitted , as seen on Paul Bartletts photo website, a few of these type of scrapwagons had other bogies fitted to them, so the type of bogie seen here is to be fitted to my 3rd body is salvaged off a Bachmann TEA 100 tonne fuel tanker.

Looking at one of my Paul Bartlett photos showing the innerside of one of these "well used" wagons, So I decided to try to add some extra detailing to represent this, I have used thinnest Evergreen strip 0.25mm; Evergreen #104 (thats 0.25mm x 2.0mm, the 2mm being equal width to external braceing #144) were applied internally to area's of top & vertical braceings, easily marked for applied position using the same spaceing jig as external braceings.

Using a variety of both blunt & semi-sharp objects & a suitably sized piece of wood to rest on all #144 external verticle siffeners & to fit inbetween outside top brace & solebar area (clearance needed to avoid damage to detailing on solebar), I pressed the areas inbetween the innerside stiffeners.,

Of course, on the real examples there are no internal braceings , but over a period of time & bashed usage, the panels get pushed outward to resemble this effect, I need to take the edges off the #104 internals with a dremel sanding drum or similar as to blend them in appear as the inner sheet panelling.

Above photo; You can just see the subtle denting & outward bulgeing areas inbetween outer stiffeners,

Just to add a small tip for fellow scratchbuilders; - an ideal storage pot for storeing items of strip & profile & cutdown sections of them; is a desktop organizer bought from somewhere like Staples or other stationary suppliers, you may have noticed I've marked each of strips I use including offcuts for easy identification & referance, I use fine tip permanant marker pens made by Swann Stabilo, also available from Staples & other stationary retailers.

To be continued...

More progress;

Door hatches were made with 0.5mm plasticard. Hinges & bolts were then fiited, I've had to use spare Ratio spear fenceing for cross bolts as at the time I did'nt have any 0.5mm styrene rod.

more distressing applied to innerside side panels

Evergreen 4188 was most suited for the rear end panels, cut at 28mm wide, just separate them every at 5th groove for most suited height of 5.

0.4mm holes were drilled for inserting ladder rungs, I've used #25 staples for rungs

A cut to size at 28mm wide Slaters plasticard 0.20 thou (0.5mm) was sandwiched between 2x #4188's

End componants fitted into place against the #294's* (*= Evergreen 3.2mm "L" profiles)

The inner floor of wagon is an Evergreen #4502 cut to 1" 1/16"

Evergreen #294 "L" were cut to size & fitted to innerside solebar as shown above.

The floor to fit on topside of #294 "L" , & cross bracers to go beneath floor in line with each of the bodyside stiffeners,

to be continued...

looking good.............

Those bogies are a work of art............definately worth scratchbuilding instead of using manufacture ones

Have you thought about colours yet ?

I reckon Humbrol "Sea Blue" for the body but I can't nail that solebar colour.

Thanks SouthernMan46,

I've had some thoughts about the most suited shades of blue & came up with the following likely candidates;

For the main bodyside colour of light blue ; either Humbrol 65 or Revel 49 or Phoenix 58 (all matt enamel tinlets)

Some of the Paul Bartlett photo's show a more mid blue similar to "Barclays Bank" colour scheme as used on 51 tonne SSA / POA scrap wagons, so Humbrol 89 or Phoenix 153 will suit.

As I'm building 3 of these PR31xx series wagons I may use this shade of blue for one of the 3x PR31xx models I'm scratchbuilding, & or the PR3001 series next on my scratchbuilding agenda.

I tested a 50/50 mix of Humbrol 89 / Revell 49 which looked good judging from some Paul Bartlett photo's I have of PR31xx's.

But I discovered mixing an equivalent colour of Phoenix enamel paint with Humbrol or Revell enamel paints were incompatable, I think this may be because Phoenix paints are acrylic based enamel as opposed to Revell & humbrol enamel paints which I think are more oil based.

As for the solebar; I reckon using either Humbrol 104 or Revel 56 to be fairly suitable.

A sneak preview on the progress made, how its coming together,

Holes drilled into floorplate for bogie positioning, this hole will be made wider equal to the diameter of a head of an M3 panhead bolt, much more robust cross member beneath this will support bogie, the pan head bolts holding bogies will be recessed below or level of floor plate, but still accessable with screwdriver.

I applied tiny spots of Revell Contacta onto #294 as to attatch the floor to one side of body & I allowed this to dry , then when dry I fitted the other bodyside as seen here, the end bodysides were plastic welded to bodysides firstly, as the topmost edge of all bodysides needs to meet up & match level, when dry the other side of floor will be sealed to the other #294 / bodyside using MEK / liquid poly applied with a fine brush.

The bogies temporary seated in their positions under chassis/floor,

Theres much more to do !

To be continued....

I could'nt resist testing out an idea .... Suspension !

Actually, it works quite well, just so long as the nut holding bogie is'nt over tightened otherwise the resistance of spring compresson will bind & restrict bogie movement, this wagon will handle 2nd radius curves when I tested.

I've used a 5mm diameter spring that fits over M3 nut that secures M3 bolt to the chassis, although I had to cut the length of spring down to 2/3 of size as it was too long.

I've yet to decide weather or not to use this maybe over-engineered suspension idea, so I've left the bogie mounting area's of the floor/chassis fairly free in case I decided to revert to my original plans involving more work to that area of chassis without suspension.

I can still do the rest of body fitments such as buffers & fitment of kadee's. I can also make a start on the assembly of her 2 sister wagons.

To be continued....

I progressed with the other 2 wagons;

I'm awaiting the postman to deliver various size M3 bolts, nuts & washers, tiny coil springs and some Evergreen #294 , - enough to do these & the other design of scrapwagon I'll hopefully makeing a start on at the end of next week.

The floor / chassis of these wagons will be double skinned, this is mainly because I wish the panhead head of bolts to be recessed.

Inbetween bolt panheads, I've added cross members & filled the cavity's with a product called "Liquid gravity" , when the infill of this was level , I sealed a 0.5mm plasticard sheet over to fit the floor area.

I done similar to other wagon, but I did'nt use liquid gravity within the double skin, it does'nt make too much difference, I have some 2mm thick metal plates that I salvaged from old rolling stock, so will be using them for the other design of wagon that i'll be starting in a week or two.

Can you see what I've done here as one of the detail features as seen on Photo's on Paul Bartlett's website ??

Another usefull tip,; I built myself a tool from styrene as to gain the correct spaceing between bogie frame topmost & the solebar/chassis., as you can see I've made 2 of them each with different spaceings.

Body end modifications need to the 3rd wagon, looking more closely at my collection of Paul Bartlett photo's I noticed the other design of bogies (from TEA 100 tonne tanker) were used on the body varient onwards from # PR3150, 51, 52, 53, etc , I needed to alter the ends by extending just the body length, (chassis length stays the same) The hatch needs to be moved over so its centralized, I was able to remove the hatch without damage but I needed to weld a couple of repair strips in the hatch hole in bodywork.

2 of the wagons on show needing buffer end compoments, staples inserting, , assembly of bogies awaits the 3mm nuts, bolts & washers I've on order.

To be continued...

Latest progress, fitment of oval sprung buffers & NEM dovetail sockets for couplings,

The Bachmann MBA next to my scratchbuilds,

Dovetail sockets were obtained from Parkside Dundas (item PA34), & the sprung oval buffers were Bachmann 36-031 , I made a houseing around the dovetail componants as shown here & photo's below,

I cut to size Evergreen #149 for bufferbeams & then carefully marked for drilling 2mm holes for push fitment of Bachmann 36-031 buffers.

I fitted M3 domehead nuts rather than fitting nylocks or normal nuts, the domehead nuts will need painting a similar colour to bogie.

Kadee #19's are fitted here , they seem to manage pull & push around 3rd radius setrack curves okay,

The correct height was checked with a kadee height checking gauge.

2 wagons coupled on straight track.

I lightly tacked each coupling houseing into place, then carefully drilled a 3mm hole through this & chassis for nut & bolt enableing the option to remove the coupling houseing for whatever reason such as removeing them to avoid coupling damage during transit..., with the nut & bolt removed the dovetail & NEM pocket can be slid out or the complete houseing can be removed for coupling height issues, or easier replacement of damaged buffers.

Rear ladder rungs fitment & primer paint next...

To be continued....

Its great to see these taking shape. Just one observation though, do those NEM dovetails give enough movement on reverse curves? The pivoting head of the NEM Kadees will help them round in one direction, but these are quite lengthy vehicles so I have a niggling feeling that you may encounter issues with pointwork and the reverse curves often found there. It may be worth putting together a set of coupler mountings that will take a Kadee #5 as an alternative just to test which are the more reliable.