0_gauge_novice Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Tales of war and peace part 1: Gladiator/Javelin Kits Dean Goods in 7mm Beware! This is going to be a slow and painful build ! I have decided to take the plunge and tackle two of the kits that I am really fond of the prototype locomotives. Although I have a WB topic here and in the 7mm+ group I took a look and there are no building threads for these two locomotives or kits. Furthermore I will need some help on the way and I don’t want to mix it up with my other projects. Why tales of war and peace? What does this have to do with the GWR Dean Goods and with me. Well….I model Greek prototype. In 1918 a number of Dean Goods locomotives arrived in the harbour of Thessaloniki by the ROD and helped in the Balkan front. After the war some of these locomotives stayed for a number of years in Service in northern Greece over the JSC (Jonction Salonique Constantinople) network. Some of them returned to the UK in 1921 but others were written off. Now the question is did any of the written off locomotives stay in Greece even longer and ended their carreer in the Balkans….difficult to tell. In any case in the rolling stock list of the Hellenic State Railways from 1933 (JSC and other networks merged together in the 20s) there is no hint of any Dean Goods. Anyway,despite the short service life of 3-15 years and the fuzzy story about them I would like to model one for a number of years in 7mm (maybe I will do an Finney/Brassmasters 00 one when they come out – but the scale difference with H0 puts me off a little bit). I was thinking of the Finney one but then it was too late (agrrr….), so I was left with two choises (3 as I found out afterwards –Warren Shepard….) DA and Gladiator/Javelin. DA was ruled out as no PayPal or Credit Card and it would be a problem for me as I live abroad so I stuck with Gladiator…but I had to hurry because I read they were closing down. Furthermore the comments on the Gladiator/Javelin kits are favourable so I made my choice. I contacted Gladiator and the prompt answer was the kit was in stock. No hesitation and ordered immediately. This was beginning of 2015. In order to model correctly one of them will be a challenge. I have the book of R. Turret about allied military locomotives but this covers WWII. I saw that there were also some modification by the ROD like Westinghouse pumps and cab roofs.I ordered some literature to take a look and make it right and should arrive now anyday. I have also made a shortlist of the locomotives that came to Thessaloniki in 1918 and those, which came back in 1921. The literature that will be used is the following: The Railway Magazine: Locomotives of the ROD 1916-1919; Part I, II, III, IV and V: 1932-1933. William Dean the greatest of them all by Jeremy Clemens. Ian Allan publishing. Great Western Locomotives on the main line; scenes from an Edwardian railway. Ian Allan publishing. Now the kit. Most of it is brass with a nickel silver chassis. The boiler comes pre rolled but not the firebox. There are white metal castings for most of the details. Sadly 3 of the 6 axleboxes and springs for the tender are broken but I guess I can repair them easily or I will replace them with brass ones. I will see. The kit will be built with Slaters wheels and the locomotive will have cast brass hornblocks from Slaters and the tender will be sprung in the middle axle just like the spring and bearing method as Sandy Harper has shown here in the forum. I have had some minor issues besides the axleboxes, namely on the etchings of the locomotive chassis there are springs. These should have the leafs etched on but it seems that the films of the kit are not so crisp anymore or something happened during production. Instructions are ok and typical for a small producer but I have to say that with today’s possibilities using desktop publishing programmes it is a shame that the instruction cannot be updated implementing pictures. This really turns me off and if somebody says it takes time I say yes…but you earn your living out of it or part of and you should do it right. The instructions of such kits should be like the ones Jim from Connoisseur models offers, which are excellent with a lot of pictures that a real help. Anyway….I think I will manage it. I hope that David Hill acquired some of the Gladiator kits (I do not know if he also got the Dean Goods) that he will update the instructions. The box of the kit. Two axles for the tender and the locomotive hornblocks from Slaters. I will get the other stuff too and an ABC gearbox. The broken axleboxes as mentioned.... The other castings.... The rolled boiler. Now I wonder why there are 3 short rolled pieces? Should that be only one smokebox? Bearing and small bits The frame etch. You can see the problem with the etching on the above left spring of the frame and the spring for the lamination in the middle. Tender frame and Belpaire firebox fret. Footplate and cab. Counterweights, boiler bands, Tender structure and coal bunker. Tender superstructure. I will come back with details on the history of the locomotives that were shipped to the Greek front. As I said....slow and painful! Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaScala Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Tales of war and peace part 1: Gladiator/Javelin Kits Dean Goods in 7mm Beware! This is going to be a slow and painful build ! I have decided to take the plunge and tackle two of the kits that I am really fond of the prototype locomotives. Although I have a WB topic here and in the 7mm+ group I took a look and there are no building threads for these two locomotives or kits. Furthermore I will need some help on the way and I don’t want to mix it up with my other projects. Why tales of war and peace? What does this have to do with the GWR Dean Goods and with me. Well….I model Greek prototype. In 1918 a number of Dean Goods locomotives arrived in the harbour of Thessaloniki by the ROD and helped in the Balkan front. After the war some of these locomotives stayed for a number of years in Service in northern Greece over the JSC (Jonction Salonique Constantinople) network. Some of them returned to the UK in 1921 but others were written off. Now the question is did any of the written off locomotives stay in Greece even longer and ended their carreer in the Balkans….difficult to tell. In any case in the rolling stock list of the Hellenic State Railways from 1933 (JSC and other networks merged together in the 20s) there is no hint of any Dean Goods. Anyway,despite the short service life of 3-15 years and the fuzzy story about them I would like to model one for a number of years in 7mm (maybe I will do an Finney/Brassmasters 00 one when they come out – but the scale difference with H0 puts me off a little bit). I was thinking of the Finney one but then it was too late (agrrr….), so I was left with two choises (3 as I found out afterwards –Warren Shepard….) DA and Gladiator/Javelin. DA was ruled out as no PayPal or Credit Card and it would be a problem for me as I live abroad so I stuck with Gladiator…but I had to hurry because I read they were closing down. Furthermore the comments on the Gladiator/Javelin kits are favourable so I made my choice. I contacted Gladiator and the prompt answer was the kit was in stock. No hesitation and ordered immediately. This was beginning of 2015. In order to model correctly one of them will be a challenge. I have the book of R. Turret about allied military locomotives but this covers WWII. I saw that there were also some modification by the ROD like Westinghouse pumps and cab roofs.I ordered some literature to take a look and make it right and should arrive now anyday. I have also made a shortlist of the locomotives that came to Thessaloniki in 1918 and those, which came back in 1921. The literature that will be used is the following: The Railway Magazine: Locomotives of the ROD 1916-1919; Part I, II, III, IV and V: 1932-1933. William Dean the greatest of them all by Jeremy Clemens. Ian Allan publishing. Great Western Locomotives on the main line; scenes from an Edwardian railway. Ian Allan publishing. Now the kit. Most of it is brass with a nickel silver chassis. The boiler comes pre rolled but not the firebox. There are white metal castings for most of the details. Sadly 3 of the 6 axleboxes and springs for the tender are broken but I guess I can repair them easily or I will replace them with brass ones. I will see. The kit will be built with Slaters wheels and the locomotive will have cast brass hornblocks from Slaters and the tender will be sprung in the middle axle just like the spring and bearing method as Sandy Harper has shown here in the forum. I have had some minor issues besides the axleboxes, namely on the etchings of the locomotive chassis there are springs. These should have the leafs etched on but it seems that the films of the kit are not so crisp anymore or something happened during production. Instructions are ok and typical for a small producer but I have to say that with today’s possibilities using desktop publishing programmes it is a shame that the instruction cannot be updated implementing pictures. This really turns me off and if somebody says it takes time I say yes…but you earn your living out of it or part of and you should do it right. The instructions of such kits should be like the ones Jim from Connoisseur models offers, which are excellent with a lot of pictures that a real help. Anyway….I think I will manage it. I hope that David Hill acquired some of the Gladiator kits (I do not know if he also got the Dean Goods) that he will update the instructions. 20150617_221027.jpg The box of the kit. 20150617_221051.jpg Two axles for the tender and the locomotive hornblocks from Slaters. I will get the other stuff too and an ABC gearbox. 20150617_221134.jpg The broken axleboxes as mentioned.... 20150617_221201.jpg The other castings.... 20150617_221235.jpg The rolled boiler. Now I wonder why there are 3 short rolled pieces? Should that be only one smokebox? 20150617_221307.jpg Bearing and small bits 20150617_221350.jpg The frame etch. 20150617_221408.jpg You can see the problem with the etching on the above left spring of the frame and the spring for the lamination in the middle. 20150617_221444.jpg Tender frame and Belpaire firebox fret. 20150617_221513.jpg Footplate and cab. 20150617_221547.jpg Counterweights, boiler bands, Tender structure and coal bunker. 20150617_221623.jpg Tender superstructure. I will come back with details on the history of the locomotives that were shipped to the Greek front. As I said....slow and painful! Cheers Andreas Good luck with this. You did not mention Warren Sheppard's kit or the one I obtained earlier this year; the Vulcan/Zero Zephyr. It's got a thread of its own http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95593-zero-zephyr-dean-goods/ Warren has some excellent castings available if you need any upgrades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Instructions are ok and typical for a small producer but I have to say that with today’s possibilities using desktop publishing programmes it is a shame that the instruction cannot be updated implementing pictures. This really turns me off and if somebody says it takes time I say yes…but you earn your living out of it or part of and you should do it right. The instructions of such kits should be like the ones Jim from Connoisseur models offers, which are excellent with a lot of pictures that a real help. Anyway….I think I will manage it. I hope that David Hill acquired some of the Gladiator kits (I do not know if he also got the Dean Goods) that he will update the instructions. HI Andreas! At present the instructions are all typed - no soft copies! As it happens we have arranged to start taking delivery of the instructions for the kits now and will commence the (probably tedious) process of scanning them and producing editable soft copies. We will then be able to do more in the way of photos etc. Brassmasters include a CD with their 4mm 4F kit and I am wondering if this would be useful: it might even be able to include video clips for those tricky moments!. The down side is that we have not acquired the Javelin range! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_gauge_novice Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi La Scala, Good luck with this. You did not mention Warren Sheppard's kit or the one I obtained earlier this year; the Vulcan/Zero Zephyr. It's got a thread of its own http://www.rmweb.co....hyr-dean-goods/ Warren has some excellent castings available if you need any upgrades. I mention the Warren Sheppard kit in my text. I found out late that it was also available. I have seen your thread about the ZZ Kit but it is not readily available so........I will take a look into these castings to replace maybe the axleboxes in the tender. HI Andreas! At present the instructions are all typed - no soft copies! As it happens we have arranged to start taking delivery of the instructions for the kits now and will commence the (probably tedious) process of scanning them and producing editable soft copies. We will then be able to do more in the way of photos etc. Brassmasters include a CD with their 4mm 4F kit and I am wondering if this would be useful: it might even be able to include video clips for those tricky moments!. The down side is that we have not acquired the Javelin range! Hi David, I find it useful to have the instructions on the website so that you can see if the kit is for you and how difficult it is. Furthermore....a CD with high resolution pictures would be advisable for me. Interesting would be also some comments or dividing them in folders like "locomotive chassis", "tender chassis" etc. It would help the construction. Narrative inscructions are not the best. Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKR Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Slightly off topic, but have a look at the instructions with the latest Cambrian kits. Coloured illustrations between the paragraphs. Really easy to follow and easily applied to a web page if printing too expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You might be able to get the HO scale one by asking for a set of scaled-down etches of the 4mm kit. You'll have to obtain other suitable wheels, castings, etc, but that is a possible start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 As for instructions I like narrative and diagrams together. The old airfix ones were good as you learnt what the parts were as you built. Just pictures teaches you nothing.By the way oo scale and ho scale do not exist. But oo and ho gauge are both 16.5mm probably with different sleeper spacings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaScala Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi La Scala, I mention the Warren Sheppard kit in my text. I found out late that it was also available. I have seen your thread about the ZZ Kit but it is not readily available so........I will take a look into these castings to replace maybe the axleboxes in the tender. Hi David, I find it useful to have the instructions on the website so that you can see if the kit is for you and how difficult it is. Furthermore....a CD with high resolution pictures would be advisable for me. Interesting would be also some comments or dividing them in folders like "locomotive chassis", "tender chassis" etc. It would help the construction. Narrative inscructions are not the best. Cheers Andreas I'm sure you will go really well with your kit. There are several threads on Dean Goods over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_gauge_novice Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi N15class, Yes pictures only are not very helpful.I agree.But alsoonly text is not helpful.The instructions have some diagrams which are good but by studying them I found out that they only show major parts and not the small bits.As I said the instructions of Connoisseur should be used as an template. Considering H0 I would say its a scale because it implies miniatures in 1:87.1 scale. Yes H0 is standard gauge and if you have e.g. narrow gauge you use HO for the scale with a sufix m, e, n3, f which reveal the track gauge. Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Are you going to do the dean goods with the additional Pannier tanks on the side of the loco like a few of the WD examples ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_gauge_novice Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Steve, I haven't found evidence that the locos that remained had thse tanks but I need to look whem the literature is here. Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Andreas, I would not worry too much about the broken spring and axlebox castings. Unless you are planning to build the Dean Goods in 1930s condition or later, the tenders were fitted with a lighter spring that had a radius at the top. The straight topped spring dates the mid 1920s and first seems to have been used on 3500 gallon tenders. It migrated later to the 2500 and 3000 gallon tenders. Regards, Craig W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_gauge_novice Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Andreas, I would not worry too much about the broken spring and axlebox castings. Unless you are planning to build the Dean Goods in 1930s condition or later, the tenders were fitted with a lighter spring that had a radius at the top. The straight topped spring dates the mid 1920s and first seems to have been used on 3500 gallon tenders. It migrated later to the 2500 and 3000 gallon tenders. Regards, Craig W Hi Graig, can you point to me a producer for the correct tender axlebox and spring castings? Thanks in advance Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have built the Gladiator/Javelin kit of the similar Cambrian Railways Class 15 0-6-0 goods. The chassis and tender were fitted with home-made three-point compensation. Overall, it was not a difficult build, but painting has been a challenge and I am still disatisfied with the result. You can read about it here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77034-cambrian-railways-15-class-gladiator-kit/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Just for a bit of interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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