Would the 37xx City Class have carried route availabilty discs and power classification lettering in the late 1920's?

[46444]

Recently I purchased one of the newly released Bachmann 37xx City Class in the guise of 3707 Kilarney in 1920's livery.

 

The plan is to renumber/rename the loco as 3717 City of Truro. I've ordered the name/number plates from Modelmaster. I'm working from this photo taken from the excellent Warwickshire Railways website showing 3717 at Snow Hill in 1930.

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh43.htm

 

My question is would it have carried route availability discs and power classification lettering? Or would it have been too early for these?

 

In addition if it did carry them what colour and lettering would the disc carry?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[David Bigcheeseplant]

The photo shows City of Truro coupled to a 3500 gallon tender not the 3000 gallon type it has now or supplied with the Bachman model.

 

David

The photo shows City of Truro coupled to a 3500 gallon tender not the 3000 gallon type it has now or supplied with the Bachman model.

 

David

[gwrrob]

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1906.html

 

This might help Mark.

[46444]

The photo shows City of Truro coupled to a 3500 gallon tender not the 3000 gallon type it has now or supplied with the Bachman model.DavidThe photo shows City of Truro coupled to a 3500 gallon tender not the 3000 gallon type it has now or supplied with the Bachman model.David

Thanks David for pointing that out regarding the tender. I was aware that there were changes to larger tenders in the later years. In this case it may be a case of sticking with the 3000 gallon tender as supplied.

 

To change it to the correct 3500 gallon tender what would be the easiest option? I've a spare 78xx 3500 gallon tender but I think this is too modern?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[46444]

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1906.html

This might help Mark.

Brilliant Robin. I'd been looking at that site recently as well! That answers that then.

 

So blue dot. What would the power classification letter be?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[asmay2002]

Given a tractive effort of 17,800lb it would be "A".

[The Stationmaster]

Brilliant Robin. I'd been looking at that site recently as well! That answers that then.

 

So blue dot. What would the power classification letter be?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

The Blue RA dot is incorrect for a 'City'- the axle load on the driving wheels of the Cities' put them firmly into the Red category.  Power Group was A.

[46444]

Given a tractive effort of 17,800lb it would be "A".

  

The Blue RA dot is incorrect for a 'City'- the axle load on the driving wheels of the Cities' put them firmly into the Red category.  Power Group was A.

Thankyou Andy and Mike

 

HMRS red dots at the ready!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[NCB]

Are you sure about red dots? Every pic of model or prototype I've seen has a blue dot, including the preserved City of Truro when turned out with black frames. Wikipedia states blue route availability.

 

Cheers

Nigel

[46444]

Are you sure about red dots? Every pic of model or prototype I've seen has a blue dot, including the preserved City of Truro when turned out with black frames. Wikipedia states blue route availability.

 

Cheers

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

 

Interesting point. I'll have a further scout about but Andy and Mike are usually correct and I'd trust their knowledge.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[The Stationmaster]

Are you sure about red dots? Every pic of model or prototype I've seen has a blue dot, including the preserved City of Truro when turned out with black frames. Wikipedia states blue route availability.

 

Cheers

Nigel

 

I have in the past drawn to the attention of an NRM person who is a member on here that the latest bit of restoration work on 'Truro' included an inaccurate RA 'dot'.

 

The RCTS history lists them as 'Red' and their driving axle loading definitely puts them into the Red category.   As a a further check I have just looked at the 1928 edition of 'Great Western Railway Engines' published by the Company itself and it too lists them as Red so effectively there are three separate sources, two of which are GWR official information, which list them either as RA Red or that they should be RA Red- and that's good enough for me.

 

The Bachmann model which has a Blue disc is a copy of the prototype in the condition in which it was repainted some years ago so it's an accurate model of an incorrectly painted preserved engine.  

 

It is of course possible that the GWR altered them to Blue at some stage but if that happened it was post 1928 although it would seem that such changes - without physical alteration of the engines themselves - was relatively unusual (the best know example being the 57XX of course).

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

Long shot, but are we sure that Swindon fitted a number 4 in 1957 and not a number 2. I have always thought that photos of Truro since 1957 have never displayed the bulk of the engines in photos from 1931 and before.

 

Oakhill (the conspiracy theorist) Grange

[Quarryscapes]

Thanks David for pointing that out regarding the tender. I was aware that there were changes to larger tenders in the later years. In this case it may be a case of sticking with the 3000 gallon tender as supplied.

 

To change it to the correct 3500 gallon tender what would be the easiest option? I've a spare 78xx 3500 gallon tender but I think this is too modern?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

The 3500g Manor tender will be fine, but you'll no doubt have to think about how best to couple it to the loco since I think the City is semi permanently coupled as the DCC socket is in the tender like the Dukedog (I believe anyway!) . A Dukedog tender thus may be more suitable as I suspect they'll share the same design characteristics from Bachmann. 

[Coach bogie]

There is no need to arrange for coupling the manor tender frames. You can use the original Bachmann City tender frame which is more appropriate for the 1920's.(the Bachmann Manor deep tender frames are too modern for the 1920's anyway).

Carefully slice the body away from the running plate.

 

lightly glue to Bachmann City tender frames.

 

Here is mine finished in last 1930's condition, but using the flush sided tender from the railroad County 4-4-0, having removed the mountainous coal load first.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[46444]

The 3500g Manor tender will be fine, but you'll no doubt have to think about how best to couple it to the loco since I think the City is semi permanently coupled as the DCC socket is in the tender like the Dukedog (I believe anyway!) . A Dukedog tender thus may be more suitable as I suspect they'll share the same design characteristics from Bachmann.

 

Thanks. I'll have a look at my Dukedog and see how it may work.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[46444]

There is no need to arrange for coupling the manor tender frames. You can use the original Bachmann City tender frame which is more appropriate for the 1920's.(the Bachmann Manor deep tender frames are too modern for the 1920's anyway).

MT2.jpg

Carefully slice the body away from the running plate.

 

MT1.jpg

lightly glue to Bachmann City tender frames.

 

Here is mine finished in last 1930's condition, but using the flush sided tender from the railroad County 4-4-0, having removed the mountainous coal load first.

 

CITY 3712.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks Mike,

 

Must say that's a lovely conversion.

 

Out of the Manor and County which tender body shell would be the better of the two and does the County body shell fit the original Bachmann City chassis?

 

The shot of the City with a BR late crest does look good.

 

Thanks once again,

 

Mark

[Coach bogie]

Thanks Mike,

 

Must say that's a lovely conversion.

 

Out of the Manor and County which tender body shell would be the better of the two and does the County body shell fit the original Bachmann City chassis?

 

The shot of the City with a BR late crest does look good.

 

Thanks once again,

 

Mark

 

I eventually went for the County/28XX tender as I wanted the flush riveted tender, which was more common on the express 4-4-0 engines. Riveted tenders only started to appear when Collett took over, so were quite new for the time line of our respective projects.

 

Greatest challenge is the coal lump, which I removed by drilling lots of holes, then running a blade along the holes, with a filler of plasticard. Also the end handrails are moulded, which I replaced.

 

For comparison here is Truro with light frames and narrow body

 

And light frames with larger flush rivet tender

 

Mike Wiltshire

[46444]

I eventually went for the County/28XX tender as I wanted the flush riveted tender, which was more common on the express 4-4-0 engines. Riveted tenders only started to appear when Collett took over, so were quite new for the time line of our respective projects.

 

Greatest challenge is the coal lump, which I removed by drilling lots of holes, then running a blade along the holes, with a filler of plasticard. Also the end handrails are moulded, which I replaced.

MT5.jpg

MT4.jpg

 

For comparison here is Truro with light frames and narrow body

mt8.jpg

 

And light frames with larger flush rivet tender

mt7.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks once again Mike. The photos are brilliant and show the modification of the County tender nicely. I've just ordered a body shell off of eBay. My model is renumbered, renamed with the weathering and detailing having been started. The use of this tender body will help to complete my project for a late period City Class.

 

Cheers.

 

Mark