Scale Model Signal 4mm by SME Co Ltd Sussex

[locomad]

Does anyone know about Scale Model Signals 4mm made by Scale Model Equipment Co Ltd Steyning Sussex in maybe 1950's 1960's

 

Other than having obtained one in a box I know nothing of the company or how much they cost in there day.

 

The signal itself is what I consider the best quality I've come across compared to others of the day both in operation reliability scale etc.

 

Only 2 wires it works by a solenoid energised when up, hence most of the time it's off when up uses 12v DC very low amperage never gets warm.

 

Just wish I had some more easy to install just drill a hole never gives problems

[ThePipersSon]

AFAIK the company moved into HiFI, making arms for turntables.  They are still doing it, very successfully.

[The Stationmaster]

They are excellent signals although strangely the posts are very slightly underscale - presumably they used stock sizes and went for the one best suited without doing too much machining.  If you're very lucky you can find them on the secondhand market at sensible prices, I've obtained a couple in auction lots effectively at under £2 each. 

[Il Grifone]

I seem to recall adverts for these at premium prices.

 

It is obviously very well constructed and, unusually, they realise that the 'green' glass is actually cyan. 

[locomad]

Thanks for reply and most interesting I'am sure I tried googling some years ago and got nothing so assumed they just disappeared, quite interesting they went on to manufacture very high quality products. I can see why as the signals where excellent products I like the design too very simple.

 

Never seen any second hand so assumed not many made or people don't get rid of them because they are so good, very lucky to pay just a few quid for some.

 

Now for the modelling bit I've got to the stage where I need quite a few signals to finish off my layout, the nearest ones both in quality and quantity is Hornby dublo although I like the motorised ones I don't like the big base, however you can bury them in platforms. I prefer the non motorised ones so thinking of using the same idea to motorise them, anyone done this?

[D51]

These beautifully made signals were, as you know. made by SME, now famous for their Hi-Fi pickup arms and record decks, still made in Steyning,UK. 

 

There are two heights, the home and distant being 3³/₄" high and the starter 2" high.  They never made double-arm or junction models.

 

They were available as solenoid operated or hand operated and first went on sale in 1949 when the prices were 17/- for solenoid or 9/9d. for hand.  At this time GEM made hand operated signals, the comparable price being 11/11d. although they had tapered posts.

 

By 1959 prices had come down, the solenoid signals being 14/11d. and the hand ones being 6/-.  At this time Ratio had upper quadrant signals in plastic for only 4/8d.

 

As far as I am aware SMEC never made other model railway products other than the signals.

 

Frank

[locomad]

Thanks Frank for the information, excellent product which has stood the test of time and with another modelling friend who visited us recently solved our question. Having only one never got round to finding anything about them, it's on the layout now been wired via a terminal block as was not sure how long it would last. They spotted it at the weekend and like me having been into modelling for over 55 years, never come across one

 

One advantage is only need one wire to really operate it as the other goes to the common return, simple on/off switch as well.

 

Price is interesting into today's prices about £35, so very much a quality product even then cost was a lot, hence why you don't see many.

 

The solenoid is interesting as it's just screwed to the base, the plunger when energised just pushes up the counter weight when current is cut off drops, the counter weight drops and signal returns to red, I wonder if the non solenoid ones could be converted later?

[D51]

The price for the SME signal is not too bad compared to the Hornby-Dublo equivalent which was 9/11d. at this time plus 4/6d. for the D1 switch making a total of 14/5d..  The SME signal at 14/11d.only needed a Woolworths low-voltage on-off switch costing 1/- making a total of 15/11d.  (a push button might have been better!).

[Il Grifone]

I didn't immediately connect SME with the classic '60s Hi-Fi pickup arms. My father had one and stupidly I listened to SWMBO when he passed away. It really was a beautiful piece of equipment, but I already had a B & O record deck, so really it would have been redundant....

 

I shall have to look out for these signals (Haven't seen any to date!). I did wind a coil many years ago for operating a signal like this and really it is the 'fail-safe' way of doing things.

 

I used to use Woolworth's switches for my railway back then. They had a surface mount light switch, which IIRC cost 7d, available as 1 or 2 way. The switches were always the expensive part of accessories. The Dublo push buttons for the uncoupling rails and T.P.O. were priced in shillings, whereas the Woolworth's bell push was only about 6d.

 

These prices seem cheap until one remembers that a 50s/60s shilling equals a 2016 £1 - £1.50 (Ignore the official figures which have a strong taint of BS. - My wife and I spent nearly £24 in Asda this morning and we only bought a few groceries). I can remember being surprised once when my parents' Saturday morning weekly shop came to over £2! - when we lived in Bristol (up to mid 1959) this was a weekly ritual as my father worked away during the week (on wages inspection - minimum wage was not a Blair initiative).

Edited November 15, 2016 by Il Grifone

[D51]

David,

 

You would have been better with the SME 3009 Mk.II and Garrard 301 than the B&O!  Today well over £1000.

 

Frank

[Il Grifone]

David,

 

You would have been better with the SME 3009 Mk.II and Garrard 301 than the B&O!  Today well over £1000.

 

Frank

 

Frank,

 

You are quite right, but it was nearly fifteen years ago! It was actually a Garrard 401 (I had already disposed of my own 301, which was a serious error).

However, I think the sound from the B & O 4000 cartridge is superior to both the other cartridges involved (Shure and Decca Mk III) and this requires it's own B & O arm, which in turn demands a B & O turntable. Perhaps I just have a 'Danish' thing. I mean I love these too....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSB_Class_MZ

 

David

[CKPR]

As well as being high-end hi-fi manufacturers (I've got a Garrard 401 & SME 3012 set up), SME were also, and may still be, aerospace industry sub-contractors. Not bad for a firm that started out making model signals 60 years ago.

Edited November 16, 2016 by CKPR

[MikeCW]

I've just picked up on this thread. I bought six of these signals around 25-30 years ago at a long defunct model shop in Auckland, New Zealand, which had extensive second-hand stock. Five were electric, one manual. The electric ones were four homes and one distant - two of the home signals being on short posts for platform or yard mounting. They were all boxed and in good condition. I didn't know anything about them at the time but was impressed with the quality. The finish and detailing were certainly more refined than the equivalent Dublo product. The only fault was that some of the spectacle glasses had fallen out over the years. I've replaced these very satisfactorily with Krystal Klear.

 

An attraction for me was that (like the Dublo signals) the post and cap looked LNWR, and the fitting of upper quadrant arms to original signal posts when older signals were renewed was not uncommon.

 

Though I've started signalling my LMS Western Division layout with servo powered signals from MSE parts, I've recently installed three of these SME (confusing similarity of initials) products on my layout. Their "flick" movement is certainly not as realistic as servo powered arms but, in my view at least, they deserve to be out there controlling trains rather than sitting in their boxes in the "stores department".

 

Three points about installation. First, I initially drove them off an AC adapter plug from some long defunct electronic equipment, giving 12v DC and 300 milliamps. One signal worked perfectly, but the power output was insufficient to raise and hold the arms of two or more signals in the "off" position simultaneously. So I then used an adapter giving 12v DC and 1.5 amps. They all work perfectly with no overheating. In any event the signals will only be "off" for a minute or so at most if the "bobby" is doing his job and putting the signals to "on" once a train has passed or departed.

 

Second,I did have trouble with one signal which for no apparent reason seemed to become quite stiff in operation and would not operate satisfactorily. I realised that when I was inspecting the signals prior to installation I had inadvertently screwed the coil from the "home" onto the "distant" and vice versa. I swapped them back and all was fine. I suspect that there might have been some hand fettling of each signal in the factory, at the expense of interchangeability of parts.

 

Finally, the detail painting on the signals is rudimentary so, with an 00 brush and steady hand I tidied up the painting on the post cap, and also painted the lamp, hinge and balance weight and arm satin black.

 

In all, they are a respectable addition to any current layout except perhaps those built to the most exacting prototypical standards.

 

You may also note that this is my first post. Mustn't be so loquacious in future.

[bertiedog]

The complete ready to use signals were only a part of the items made, as SME produced a large amount of scale parts for making up signals for the various railway companies.

 

There were several hundred items in the range of turnings and stampings in brass. These included buffers, chimneys, and domes, plus frame spacers. Most kits of the period used the SME parts.

 

Hamblings were the wholesaler for them, W&H stocked them etc.

 

Production ceased in the late 1950's, but the complete signals were made from existing parts for a period.

 

The Company name is Scale Modelling Equipment limited and was founded by Alastair Robertson-Aikman, and still manufactures Audiophile turntables and tone arms

[Helveticus]

I was not sure whether to post this under "British HO" or here... so please bear with me. I started this hobby in the early 1960s with a Tri-ang Princess Elizabeth and two coaches. Having moved to Switzerland 30 years ago, and nearing retirement, I am considering re-starting the hobby which I have neglected for the last 40-odd years.

 

Now I have a historical question for you chaps. I know from my own experience that HO was never a mainstream thing for British-pattern railways.

 

Imagine my surprise when I saw in a Swiss junk shop two British semaphore signals, in original boxes, made by Scale Model Equipment Company of Steyning, Sussex.

 

One of my boxes has a price of CHF25 marked on it: the exchange rate between the Pound Sterling and the Swiss Franc was very different in the late Fifties, and would have been equivalent to about £2.

 

A Swiss model shop selling British prototype models is fairly unusual. But there is a further mysterious factor: these signals were HO scale variants.

 

So given that HO scale models of British prototypes are a very niche market even now, who was making HO layouts using British-pattern equipment in the late 50s or early 60s?

 

 

[D51]

I'm not too sure what you mean by saying they are HO scale.  Does it say HO on the box?

As I said before, the signals were made in two sizes, 3.75" and 2" high.  What is the height of these signals?

Is the same product just marketed as HO for export?

 

Frank

[Il Grifone]

12 hours ago, D51 said:

I'm not too sure what you mean by saying they are HO scale.  Does it say HO on the box?

As I said before, the signals were made in two sizes, 3.75" and 2" high.  What is the height of these signals?

Is the same product just marketed as HO for export?

 

Frank

 

It wouldn't be the first time! or the other way round*!

Hence that awful term 00/H0, ('Gauge' makes some sense, but 'scale' not at all!)

 

*Most track these days for instance!

[Helveticus]

On 10/02/2019 at 22:21, D51 said:

I'm not too sure what you mean by saying they are HO scale.  Does it say HO on the box?

As I said before, the signals were made in two sizes, 3.75" and 2" high.  What is the height of these signals?

Is the same product just marketed as HO for export?

 

Frank

 

Yes Frank, I should have said, there are type labels on the boxes: one with "HO/D" and the other "HO/H". Obviously the letter after the slash meaning Distant and Home respectively. The height seems to be 3.7" (94 mm) post height above the baseplate. Maybe it was the same product... and "4 mm scale" is printed on the standard label at the right hand side of the box, which would have been a contradiction in itself.

 

[Helveticus]

So folks, I think I have solved my own riddle. Also with Frank's help regarding the signal post height.

Looking at the other SMEC boxes in the forum, the type number starts with "E" probably for electric, and "H" for hand... So I think this "HO" refers to "Hand Operated". There's me getting excited about a non-existent HO scale trend in the late 1950s... ah well.

[Nimbus]

Your find might even be of interest to hi-fi enthusiasts/historians, since the manufacturer begat the renowned SME 3009 tonearm which everyone coveted in the 70's, everyone perhaps less the half-million or so who actually bought one!

 

The Nim.

[roythebus]

To go at a slight tangent, Playcraft done some very good signal kits in the mid 1960s, remarkably well detailed, you could make junction signals as well as distant with home signals, all sorts of variants. They were about 3/9d a kit but only ever hand-operated. Only the baseplates let them down.