GER Ratio Coach Conversion Article?

[Edwardian]

I believe that an article was published at one time in the modelling press concerning the use of Ratio MR suburban coaches as a basis for GER coaches.

 

I do not know how close a match this enabled the author to achieve, but I can see how these kits could be adapted to form GE 6-wheelers.  The panelling style seems reasonably close to some GE 6-wheel coaches from the 1890s.

 

Guy Rixon of this parish has hopes of producing 3D printed GE 6-wheel coach accessories - axle box/spring assy, roof fittings, buffer shanks etc - in much the way Mike Trice has done for GNR 6-wheelers.

 

Given enough MR Ratio kits to choose from and a set of plans, I could doubtless re-tread the path of the article myself, but it would be an advantage if this pigmy could find the proverbial giant's shoulders and take the article as useful starting point.

 

I am grateful to Mr Jonathan Wealleans of this parish, who had a recollection that some such article was published and was kind enough to mention that to me, but can any kind member recall the specific article and in what edition of which organ I might find it?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Edwardian

[stewartingram]

Was it in the Model Trains/Scale Trains/Scale Model Trains sets? I recently sorted a lod of these out (I had a full set) for disposal, and kept some back for scanning of interested articles. I'm not at the moment to search through the pile....but it could be in there?

 

Stewart

[Edwardian]

Was it in the Model Trains/Scale Trains/Scale Model Trains sets? I recently sorted a lod of these out (I had a full set) for disposal, and kept some back for scanning of interested articles. I'm not at the moment to search through the pile....but it could be in there?

 

Stewart

 

Thanks, Stewart.

 

I'm afraid I have no idea.  I did not come across this myself.  If only I can identify where the article(s) appeared, I can try to find a copy second hand.

 

Grateful for anything you may turn up.

[teaky]

I believe that an article was published at one time in the modelling press concerning the use of Ratio MR suburban coaches as a basis for GER coaches.

 

I do not know how close a match this enabled the author to achieve, but I can see how these kits could be adapted to form GE 6-wheelers.  The panelling style seems reasonably close to some GE 6-wheel coaches from the 1890s.

 

Guy Rixon of this parish has hopes of producing 3D printed GE 6-wheel coach accessories - axle box/spring assy, roof fittings, buffer shanks etc - in much the way Mike Trice has done for GNR 6-wheelers.

 

Given enough MR Ratio kits to choose from and a set of plans, I could doubtless re-tread the path of the article myself, but it would be an advantage if this pigmy could find the proverbial giant's shoulders and take the article as useful starting point.

 

I am grateful to Mr Jonathan Wealleans of this parish, who had a recollection that some such article was published and was kind enough to mention that to me, but can any kind member recall the specific article and in what edition of which organ I might find it?

In the July 1978 Railway Modeller there was an article on converting the Ratio Midland suburban coaches into a representation of some GCR stock.

[rovex]

I have a copy of that magazine if its of use?

[The White Rabbit]

I know it's not what you asked, but if you're looking at building GER coaches, have you looked at D&S kits? I'm not sure if they are still going, but vaguely recollect they did some GER six wheel coaches (kits or scratch-aid?)

[phil_sutters]

I believe that an article was published at one time in the modelling press concerning the use of Ratio MR suburban coaches as a basis for GER coaches.

 

I do not know how close a match this enabled the author to achieve, but I can see how these kits could be adapted to form GE 6-wheelers.  The panelling style seems reasonably close to some GE 6-wheel coaches from the 1890s.

 

Guy Rixon of this parish has hopes of producing 3D printed GE 6-wheel coach accessories - axle box/spring assy, roof fittings, buffer shanks etc - in much the way Mike Trice has done for GNR 6-wheelers.

 

Given enough MR Ratio kits to choose from and a set of plans, I could doubtless re-tread the path of the article myself, but it would be an advantage if this pigmy could find the proverbial giant's shoulders and take the article as useful starting point.

 

I am grateful to Mr Jonathan Wealleans of this parish, who had a recollection that some such article was published and was kind enough to mention that to me, but can any kind member recall the specific article and in what edition of which organ I might find it?

Having looked at a very small sample of GE main-line 6 wheelers in Kichenside, my feeling is that the Midland windows are deeper and the panels above and on the waist are correspondingly shallower than the GE ones. The corners of the windows seem squarer on the GE stock. They also have very distinctive long grab handles going from the top of the waist panels right down to the bottom of the lower panel. The ventilators over the doors on that stock are very similar to the Midland ones, unlike those on the GE suburban stock which are semi-circular. Overall I think you could create the right impression. There will always be a degree of compromise - just make sure your razor saw is set at right angles and you will be fine!

[Edwardian]

In the July 1978 Railway Modeller there was an article on converting the Ratio Midland suburban coaches into a representation of some GCR stock.

 

That is good to know, thanks.

 

 

I have a copy of that magazine if its of use?

 

Yes, please, I have wide ranging pre-Grouping interests!

 

 

I know it's not what you asked, but if you're looking at building GER coaches, have you looked at D&S kits? I'm not sure if they are still going, but vaguely recollect they did some GER six wheel coaches (kits or scratch-aid?)

 

That would be the most sensible approach, yes, and I should try to overcome etched brass construction phobia!

 

Having looked at a very small sample of GE main-line 6 wheelers in Kichenside, my feeling is that the Midland windows are deeper and the panels above and on the waist are correspondingly shallower than the GE ones. The corners of the windows seem squarer on the GE stock. They also have very distinctive long grab handles going from the top of the waist panels right down to the bottom of the lower panel. The ventilators over the doors on that stock are very similar to the Midland ones, unlike those on the GE suburban stock which are semi-circular. Overall I think you could create the right impression. There will always be a degree of compromise - just make sure your razor saw is set at right angles and you will be fine!

 

I entirely take your point.  The picture below should show the disparity.

[jwealleans]

Are you going to be able to get over to Ormesby at all? If you let me know in advance I can bring my set down for your perusal. I don't have the article in question as far as I can tell.

[Edwardian]

I'd l

 

Are you going to be able to get over to Ormesby at all? If you let me know in advance I can bring my set down for your perusal. I don't have the article in question as far as I can tell.

 

Would love to.  Perhaps we should pencil in a date, then I can start negotiations with the Domestic Authorities?

[Compound2632]

I entirely take your point.  The picture below should show the disparity.

 

Yes, the big drawback in kitbashing the Bain arc roof carriages to represent other carriages, particularly earlier ones, is that the deep waist panelling is very distinctive. They're also a scale 8'6" wide, whereas much earlier stock is 8' wide. In my view, the Triang clerestories and ratio 4-wheelers make a better starting-point for generic 19th century panelled carriages, though as phil_sutters says, the square lower corners to the quarterlights are characteristic of GER carriages. 

 

To quote Alec Guinness as the Rev'd Lord Henry D'Ascoyne in Kind Hearts and Coronets, "the bosses to the pendants are typical".

[stewartingram]

I think I've found a scan of the article you want. PM me?

 

Stewart

[Edwardian]

Yes, the big drawback in kitbashing the Bain arc roof carriages to represent other carriages, particularly earlier ones, is that the deep waist panelling is very distinctive. They're also a scale 8'6" wide, whereas much earlier stock is 8' wide. In my view, the Triang clerestories and ratio 4-wheelers make a better starting-point for generic 19th century panelled carriages, though as phil_sutters says, the square lower corners to the quarterlights are characteristic of GER carriages. 

 

To quote Alec Guinness as the Rev'd Lord Henry D'Ascoyne in Kind Hearts and Coronets, "the bosses to the pendants are typical".

 

Ah, "the port is with you, my Lord ...".  One of my very favourite films.

 

My impression is that square lower corners and large radius upper corners seems to have been a fairly widespread style in the '60s and '70s, but the GE was one of those who adhered to it for many years after it fell generally out of fashion.  I gain the impression that they were building in this style throughout the 1880s and into the 1890s.  The picture below is of a 4-wheeler of 1892.

 

Later, towards the end of the Century, blind panels seem to go over to small radius to all 4 corners, while quarter lights seem adopt 4 square corners.  See detail of D&S box below, depicting an 1897 prototype.  Another good illustration of this later is the detail of a GE bogie clerestory (7mm scale).

 

No doubt there was overlap and transition and I recall a comment that Stratford built in a number of different style simultaneously!

 

Have joined the GERS (finally), so hope to obtain further information by these means.  There are some excellent articles on GE rolling stock on the GERS site for those yet to come across them. 

[jwealleans]

Would love to.  Perhaps we should pencil in a date

Any Monday at your convenience and with prior notice. Also note the Railway Weekend March 18th/19th.

[Welchester]

Ah, "the port is with you, my Lord ...".  One of my very favourite films.

 

Indeeed. Dennis Price at his best.

[Edwardian]

Thanks to Stewart Ingram of this parish (from Chatteris, no less, a town I recall with some affection), I believe I now have the article I mentioned, and the considerable bonus of one on 4-wheeled stock.

 

Thanks to everyone for their helpful replies and suggestions.  

[Andy Hayter]

Could one of you share which magazine it was please. There may be others from this congregation who might like to consider a similar conversion.

[Edwardian]

Could one of you share which magazine it was please. There may be others from this congregation who might like to consider a similar conversion.

 

Good point!

 

It's Practical Model Railways, March 1988!

[stewartingram]

Sorry, I should have done that earlier.

 

PMR 3/88 for the 6 wheel conversion from Ratio, as Edwardian said.

PMR 10/88 for the scratchbuild 4 wheel coaches.

 

Stewart

[Edwardian]

Sorry, I should have done that earlier.

 

PMR 3/88 for the 6 wheel conversion from Ratio, as Edwardian said.

PMR 10/88 for the scratchbuild 4 wheel coaches.

 

Stewart

 

The Ratio MR sides are not a particularly good match for the few GE 6-wheel coach drawings that I have, so I was interested to read that the author of the 6-wheeler article refers to comparing the Ratio MR sides with Skinley drawings of GE 6-wheelers and concluding that the Ratio sides would make for "an ideal conversion". 

 

There have, I read, been some accuracy concerns generally regarding this series, but nothing relating particularly to GE coach drawings.  I wonder, are Skinley drawings still available?

 

I note a post from 2011 on RMWeb that stated "Skinley drawings are available from, E-mail. skinleydrawings@rowe-avenue.freeserve.co.uk"

[Londoner]

Hi,

 

Mousa Models produce brass etched GER coach sides/kits. I've constructed their GER bogie coaches and they appear excellent. How closely they comply with the original profiles I don't know, but they reflect very accurately the line drawings in "Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 1" by Nick Campling and appear from page 106. Their website shows a number of vehicles by GER type ID, but I don't know if any of these are rigid chassis vehicles.

 

Good Luck,

 

Eric.

 

http://www.mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/etches/GER/ger4.html

[Edwardian]

Hi,

 

Mousa Models produce brass etched GER coach sides/kits. I've constructed their GER bogie coaches and they appear excellent. How closely they comply with the original profiles I don't know, but they reflect very accurately the line drawings in "Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 1" by Nick Campling and appear from page 106. Their website shows a number of vehicles by GER type ID, but I don't know if any of these are rigid chassis vehicles.

 

Good Luck,

 

Eric.

 

http://www.mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/etches/GER/ger4.html

 

Thanks, Eric

 

I suspect items in the section headed "ganwayed" are too modern for me.  The single clerestory vehicle listed is potentially within period, though it does not appear to be available.

 

Bogie coaches were still relatively rare in Norfolk backwaters at the period of my model and I thought to stick to 6-wheelers, at least for now.

 

The sensible thing would be to get in touch with D&S, of course .....

 

I just haven't evolved sufficiently as a modeller to regard etched brass construction with anything other than horror.  Silly, I know, but at least with plastic coach kits I can kid myself that its no different from building an Airfix Spitfire, and even I can do that!

[jwealleans]

The clerestory luggage composite has certainly been available as I built one.

 

 

Much of the rest of that stock is the 50' corridor type as buit lin the first decade of the last century - see the train starting at 2:55 here. Those are actually Worsley Works etches, but the diagrams are the same.

 

For those who care to peruse the whole video, the ex-GE corridor luggage brake in the parcels rake is a Bill Bedford etch and the Restaurant Car as D & S.

Edited July 11, 2018 by jwealleans

[Compound2632]

Ah, "the port is with you, my Lord ...".  One of my very favourite films.

 

Have joined the GERS (finally), so hope to obtain further information by these means.  There are some excellent articles on GE rolling stock on the GERS site for those yet to come across them. 

 

I had a hunch that might appeal to you! I had a bit of a look at the carriage pages on the GERS website when trying to determine if a 5-compartment third partly visible in a photo taken at St Pancras was GER or LT&SR - I forget the conclusion! I found there are quite a few photos of grounded bodies or restored carriages on the web; the article on the GERS site is illustrated with examples of the GER's very basic diagrams, presumably you can now get the original article with photos - demonstrating the benefit of supporting the line societies.

[bgman]

The clerestory luggage composite has certainly been available as I built one.

 

 

Much of the rest of that stock is the 50' corridor type as buit lin the first decade of the last century - see the train starting at 2:55 here. Those are actually Worsley Works etches, but the diagrams are the same.

 

For those who care to peruse the whole video, the ex-GE corridor luggage brake in the parcels rake is a Bill Bedford etch and the Restaurant Car as D & S.

 

 

Well, that was an enjoyable 14.30 minutes well spent thank you for posting. Can I ask what the white wagons with the red stripe are at about 7.50, are they refrigeration wagons ?

 

Grahame