Colin A Richardson Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hi All, I have seen somewhere that it is possible to chip an old mainline patriot ( mine is the LMS black 5530 Sir Frank Ree version ) but I cant for the life of me find the link. I would be very grateful for any advice, or If someone could point me in the right direction. Regards Colin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfgf Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hi All, I have seen somewhere that it is possible to chip an old mainline patriot ( mine is the LMS black 5530 Sir Frank Ree version ) but I cant for the life of me find the link. I would be very grateful for any advice, or If someone could point me in the right direction. Regards Colin. Hi Colin, This is the way I did it. Not necessarily the best, but it worked. I used a Lenz Standard v.2 (10231-02). This was too big to go inside the loco body, so I put it inside the tender and used DC Concepts connectors in the wiring between loco and tender. The attached photographs and sketch should give you an idea of how I did it. Peterfgf 1. Decoder mounted inside tender. 2. Connectors under forward end of tender, hole drilled in tender base to take wires inside (colour coding: left hand side/port = red, right/starboard = green). 3. General view of connections from loco. 4. Hole drilled in aft end of loco body to take wires inside. 5. General view of motor wiring. 6. Side view of wiring to motor brush clip and supply from chassis screw. 7. Close up view of modified motor brush clip and chassis screw. 8. Sketch of modified motor brush clip and insulated chassis screw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin A Richardson Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hi Peter many thanks for that. I looks as good as solution as i've seen so i'll give it a shot. I'll let you know how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin A Richardson Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hi Colin, This is the way I did it. Not necessarily the best, but it worked. I used a Lenz Standard v.2 (10231-02). This was too big to go inside the loco body, so I put it inside the tender and used DC Concepts connectors in the wiring between loco and tender. The attached photographs and sketch should give you an idea of how I did it. Peterfgf 1. Decoder mounted inside tender. 1.decoder in tender IMG_4489r.JPG 2. Connectors under forward end of tender, hole drilled in tender base to take wires inside (colour coding: left hand side/port = red, right/starboard = green). 2.connections under tender IMG_4476r.JPG 3. General view of connections from loco. 3.loco connections IMG_4490r.JPG 4. Hole drilled in aft end of loco body to take wires inside. 4.wires into loco chassis IMG_4493r.JPG 5. General view of motor wiring. 5.wires from chassis and to motor IMG_4497r.JPG 6. Side view of wiring to motor brush clip and supply from chassis screw. 6.side view of chassis and motor connections IMG_4496r.JPG 7. Close up view of modified motor brush clip and chassis screw. 7.close up of connections IMG_4500r.JPG 8. Sketch of modified motor brush clip and insulated chassis screw. 8.sketch of modifications img140.jpg just a quick question Peter, whats an m 1.7 oba srew? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 just a quick question Peter, whats an m 1.7 oba srew? 10BA screw which is 1.7mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewlisle Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Colin, If it is a Bachmann/Mainline split chassis loco I have fitted Hornby R8249 decoders to my LMS Jubilees & Royal Scots. To fit the decoder in the smoke box, I had to cut 5mm off the front of the chassis and drilled/tapped each side of the chassis at the front end 8BA to secure the pick up wires for the decoder. Because of the tight clearances in the boiler, I ran the wires between the two split chassis halves and along the shoulder of the motor to access the motor brushes cutting notches in the motor supports. For my Ivatt tank it was easier to fit the decoder in the base of the coalbunker and drilled/tapped each chassis half 8BA to secure the pick up wires. With the few tender driven locos I had left I fitted the decoder in the boiler and used the existing wiring from the loco to the tender to supply power to the tender drive. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfgf Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Hi Peter many thanks for that. I looks as good as solution as i've seen so i'll give it a shot. I'll let you know how it goes. just a quick question Peter, whats an m 1.7 oba srew? 10BA screw which is 1.7mm. Colin, If it is a Bachmann/Mainline split chassis loco I have fitted Hornby R8249 decoders to my LMS Jubilees & Royal Scots. To fit the decoder in the smoke box, I had to cut 5mm off the front of the chassis and drilled/tapped each side of the chassis at the front end 8BA to secure the pick up wires for the decoder. Because of the tight clearances in the boiler, I ran the wires between the two split chassis halves and along the shoulder of the motor to access the motor brushes cutting notches in the motor supports. For my Ivatt tank it was easier to fit the decoder in the base of the coalbunker and drilled/tapped each chassis half 8BA to secure the pick up wires. With the few tender driven locos I had left I fitted the decoder in the boiler and used the existing wiring from the loco to the tender to supply power to the tender drive. Peter Hi Colin, Meil and Crewlisle, Apologies for the slip of the pen - I mis-read my original scrappy notes when making the sketch. I’ve attached an updated version (with corrected spelling). Thanks to Meil who has already spotted the mistake. Corrected sketch: The original screws were 10BA (definitely not 0BA). It is increasingly difficult to get BA screws (at sensible prices) and, looking for alternatives, I came across M1.7 metric screws on RS Components, http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=oss&r=t&searchTerm=m1.7. Surprisingly I found that they have the same outer diameter and pitch, 0.35mm, as 10BA screws. RS Components also supply nylon machine screws and nuts which may be useful when re-assembling split chassis locomotives (see below). Further to Crewlisle's contribution, I had previously included one of his suggestions when fitting a decoder to a Bachmann split chassis A4. Some photographs may again be helpful: Dis-assembled A4 split frame. New leads have been fitted to the motor and the terminals sleeved. As noted by Crewlisle, the wires can be led upwards through the gap in the frame. The black nylon screws and threaded lugs which hold the two sides together are a weak feature and are prone to breakage. I suggest you get some spares beforehand or else consider the use of replacement nylons screws and nuts. Re-assembled chassis with temporarily wired decoder being tested on rolling road. It is best to check continuity and insulation at very stage. Taking it all adrift to fault-find later is time consuming (one reason I like Lenz decoders is that they seem to be very tolerant of wiring mistakes).. A section of chassis at the forward end was removed with a hacksaw and filed smooth to provide a place for the decoder. At the aft end two holes have been drilled and tapped M2 and fitted with solder lugs to provide positive locations for the power supply to the decoder. Completed chassis with decoder in position and wires tacked down, ready for the body to be refitted. Peterfgf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin A Richardson Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 Hi Colin, Meil and Crewlisle, Apologies for the slip of the pen - I mis-read my original scrappy notes when making the sketch. I’ve attached an updated version (with corrected spelling). Thanks to Meil who has already spotted the mistake. Corrected sketch: img141.jpg The original screws were 10BA (definitely not 0BA). It is increasingly difficult to get BA screws (at sensible prices) and, looking for alternatives, I came across M1.7 metric screws on RS Components, http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=oss&r=t&searchTerm=m1.7. Surprisingly I found that they have the same outer diameter and pitch, 0.35mm, as 10BA screws. RS Components also supply nylon machine screws and nuts which may be useful when re-assembling split chassis locomotives (see below). Further to Crewlisle's contribution, I had previously included one of his suggestions when fitting a decoder to a Bachmann split chassis A4. Some photographs may again be helpful: Dis-assembled A4 split frame. New leads have been fitted to the motor and the terminals sleeved. As noted by Crewlisle, the wires can be led upwards through the gap in the frame. The black nylon screws and threaded lugs which hold the two sides together are a weak feature and are prone to breakage. I suggest you get some spares beforehand or else consider the use of replacement nylons screws and nuts. 1. Bachmann 31-955 A4 60013 IMG_4371r.JPG Re-assembled chassis with temporarily wired decoder being tested on rolling road. It is best to check continuity and insulation at very stage. Taking it all adrift to fault-find later is time consuming (one reason I like Lenz decoders is that they seem to be very tolerant of wiring mistakes).. A section of chassis at the forward end was removed with a hacksaw and filed smooth to provide a place for the decoder. At the aft end two holes have been drilled and tapped M2 and fitted with solder lugs to provide positive locations for the power supply to the decoder. 2. Bachmann 31-955 A4 60013 IMG_4373r.JPG Completed chassis with decoder in position and wires tacked down, ready for the body to be refitted. 3. Bachmann 31-955 A4 60013 IMG_4527r.JPG Peterfgf Thanks Peter. Another head scratcher (for me anyway) is that both motor cover plate screws go into the same side of the chassis, how do you insulate them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfgf Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Thanks Peter. Another head scratcher (for me anyway) is that both motor cover plate screws go into the same side of the chassis, how do you insulate them? Colin, It's a while since I fitted the decoders, but I think that the screws (which originally retained the brushes holders and thus acted as supply terminals) are threaded into the two different sides of the chassis. From memory, the aft one is threaded into the LHS (looking forwards) frame and the forward one into the RHS frame. The forward one doesn't go all the way through and almost certainly the end butts up against the card insulation on the centreline which separates the frames. I'll have a check tomorrow. Peterfgf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewlisle Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Colin, The chassis on my Mainline Jubilees & Royal Scot does not have the 'step' at the front. That is why I had to cut 5mm off the front end. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfgf Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Thanks Peter. Another head scratcher (for me anyway) is that both motor cover plate screws go into the same side of the chassis, how do you insulate them? Hi Colin, I've had another look at the loco. The forward screw only screws into the right-hand frame and doesn't go into the left hand frame. There is continuity between the screw and the RH frame only. The aft bush retaining screw arrangement is more complicated. As far as I can see, without completely stripping the motor and frames down, the right hand brush screw is fitted into a transverse brass tube which is insulated from the right-hand frame an which is secured in the left hand frame by another screw. There is continuity between the screw and the LH frame only. I've taken another couple of photos and annotated them with what appears to be the arrangement: 1. View on top of motor; 2. View on LHS of motor: Hope this hasn't muddied the waters further. Peterfgf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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