GWR Station - Footbridge or Subway?

[Ed-farms]

Good afternoon

 

I am building an N Gauge GWR junction station layout, the main line from Paddington to Swansea will go through on 2 lines (up and down) with a branch line also operating. As the line as 2 platforms 1 of which has 2 platform faces one mainline and one branch line, I was wodnering would it have a footbridge or subway? Most of the stations on the GWR Main Line have a subway but they are more than 2 platforms but the footbridge looks nicer from a model railway point of view, so I was wondering which is right.

[Zomboid]

Radley was much the same as you describe. That has a bridge.

Castle Cary has a bridge.

Bridgend has a bridge.

Leamington Spa has a subway.

 

Basically you can do either, though from my non-scientific 5 minutes on Google Earth bridges seem more likely, except where the entrance is far enough below rail level that a subway is more convenient (eg Romsey, though that was built by a proper railway company)

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just depends on the surrounding landscape.

 

A footbridge is unlikely for any station on an embankment unless a subway might be vulnerable to frequent flooding.

 

If the station is in a cutting, a subway is unlikely but there might also be no requirement for a footbridge if passengers could use a nearby roadbridge.

[Karhedron]

I agree, model whichever looks more attractive to you and make sure the setting matches your choice.

[28XX]

Put yourself in the mindset of the engineer building the line. If he is importing material to site to build an embankment, it is cost effective to build subways then form the bank over.

 

This is the way to answer so many questions when devising fictitious locations. Imagine what the scene looked like in the agrarian, bucolic 18th century; then thrust some industrialisation upon it.

[The Johnster]

As you mention Swansea, I am going to assume you are modelling the South Wales Main Line somewhere in South Wales.  West of Patchway, all of the smaller stations IIRC had footbridges, even Pilning which was up an embankment, as did Newport High Street, only Cardiff General (Central if you are modern image) had a subway.  Not sure about Llanwern, and I think Marshfield used the road bridge or a sleeper crossing.  Peterstone-Super-Ely, Llantrisant, and Llanharan had road bridges in close proximity as well.  A very typical look between Llantrisant and Bridgend is a road bridge with a side road parallel to the railway, up line from the bridge and on the other side of it to the station, at the top of a cutting, with a pub or rugby club on the corner (Llantrisant, Llanharan); Google Earth shows this very well. The other side of the road over the bridge is the downsloping station approach road, on the north side of the line except for Pencoed and Bridgend.  Pencoed's footbridge doubles as the public footbridge at a level crossing.  Pyle is a veritable feast of stone arch road bridges!  For a South Wales look, I would go for a footbridge every time, and a cutting at the road bridge (Paddington) end of the station.  Use stone arch road bridges for your scenic breaks; there were no tunnels between Newport and Cockett, and suggest higher land to the north of the railway if you are not modelling the Gwent Levels (here you'd need mountains in the distance a few miles away north), which I think your inclusion of a branch line and 2 track not 4 track main line precludes anyway.

 

If by Paddington-Swansea you mean the Badminton cut-off, there are plenty of tunnels!  I am less certain of the state of smaller stations here, but Badminton had a footbridge and as most of the stations were in cuttings at at least one end I would imagine that here, too, footbridges rather than subways were the normality.  Coalpit Heath, Winterbourne, and Chipping Sodbury were in cuttings, but Brinkworth, which had a branch, and Hullavington were much more open and may have had subways.  Stations, goods sheds, signal boxes and other railway buildings on this route were all brick built with blue engineers bricks for window and doorway arches to a standard look, despite the availability of good local limestone as building material; perhaps it was already commanding a premium 'Bath Stone/Cotswold' price!. 

 

Good luck from a fellow South Wales modeller!  Actually, even if you're not modelling South Wales, good luck anyway!

Edited May 2, 2017 by The Johnster

[eastglosmog]

Just looking through some of my picture books of railways, and in GWR days at least, Swindon,  Wootton Basset and Wantage (all on the main line east of the Badminton cut off and all junction staions), Brinkworth (on the Badminton cut-off) Corsham and Box (on the main line to Bristol) all had footbridges. 

[rosetheromani]

As you mention Swansea, I am going to assume you are modelling the South Wales Main Line somewhere in South Wales.  West of Patchway, all of the smaller stations IIRC had footbridges, even Pilning which was up an embankment, as did Newport High Street, only Cardiff General (Central if you are modern image) had a subway.  Not sure about Llanwern, and I think Marshfield used the road bridge or a sleeper crossing.

 

If I remember rightly, the main line at Marshfield was 4 tracks. I think you are right that the access was from the road bridge over, which I think had brick abutments with an iron girder bridge and earthen ramps for the road to access the bridge, as the land there is very flat. On the other side of the road to the station building, there was a reen (drainage channel) running parallel to the road, everything round there is straight lines, and I think the railway track might be below sea level. There was a pub, that was sort of in the Station courtyard, I think. My memory is vague, because I am trying to remember back to the period from 1957 to 1968. So a few years ago now.

[Ed-farms]

Thank you all for your answers, based on the above and the current layout plans a footbridge would be the answer - the line is very flat through the scenic section with a canal near by at (roughly) the same level so chances are this surrounding water would flood the subway in some way.

[The Johnster]

If I remember rightly, the main line at Marshfield was 4 tracks. I think you are right that the access was from the road bridge over, which I think had brick abutments with an iron girder bridge and earthen ramps for the road to access the bridge, as the land there is very flat. On the other side of the road to the station building, there was a reen (drainage channel) running parallel to the road, everything round there is straight lines, and I think the railway track might be below sea level. There was a pub, that was sort of in the Station courtyard, I think. My memory is vague, because I am trying to remember back to the period from 1957 to 1968. So a few years ago now.

 

You do remember rightly, rose.  Most of it is still there, though of course the station itself, the sidings, and the signalbox are long gone.  The pub, the Port of Call, is not called that now and is a gastropub, but still open for business, and the bridge is still there, in use, and exactly as you describe.  The relief lines diverge from the main to make room for the down platform that isn't there any more, and the site of the signalbox is marked by a relay box dating from the introduction of MAS in the 60s.  I believe the station closed in 1962, which also the end of the Marshfield Flyer auto train service that was the only thing that stopped there.  A daily milk train was still running in the 70s.

 

The station was originally built when the railway was a two track main line; I believe the reliefs were put in not long before WW1, and  of course they would have blocked access to the down platform from that side.  I do not recall any access to it from the road bridge, and there is no trace of a gap for the gate in the girder of it.  Despite the width of the trackbed at this point, it is a single span girder with no central pier.  The original bridge was probably a stone arch but replaced by the present one to a standard pattern used on all the bridges on this section when the line was quadrupled, so if there was no footbridge separate from the road bridge at Marshfield, access to the down platform must have been across the track by a barrow crossing at the Cardiff end, presumably under the watchful eye of the signalman.  Bit scary in the dark!

 

The trackbed is indeed below the level of the highest spring tides, and the general ground level hereabouts a little lower than that.  The reen system depends on 'gouts' for drainage; the drainage channels are large culverts through the sea wall earthwork which have top hinged heavy steel covers over the seaward openings at about average high tide level.  When the sea level covers these hinged plates, the sea water pressure closes them and prevents the reen water from draining into the sea until the tide recedes sufficiently for the reen water pressure, now backed up a little, to force them open and drain out.  Peterstone Gout, the drain for the reen here, is a well known bird-spotting location in winter as the rising tide forces the waders into the little inlet that it drains into.  The levels flood occasionally, and the railway is built up sufficiently to clear this.  The South Wales, GW, BR(W), Railtrack, and now Network Rail have been pouring ballast into the marsh since 1850 when the railway was built; it is not 'floated' like the Liverpool and Manchester across Chat Moss, and they are still pouring ballast onto the top of it; they haven't found the bottom yet!

Edited May 3, 2017 by The Johnster

[John_Miles]

I am currently scratchbuilding a GWR footbridge for a forthcoming model of Pencader. Before I started I thought that all GWR footbridges were very similar, now I am wiser. Scratchbuilding one is quite a challege (I am doing it in 4mm, N gauge would be very tricky) so unless you can find a kit or an off the shelf, I would go for a subway.

[eastglosmog]

I know some GWR footbridges could be quite elaborate, but not all of them were!  Wantage Road, for instance was a plain plate girder structure, similar to this one at Southam Road http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrsrh290.htm. If doing it in 4mm/ft, you might even manage to use a Wills varigirder kit!  Just make sure you don't have a powerful landowner nearby who has to be placated by an elaborate bit of ironwork.

In addition to the points made above, one other point to remember about whether an overbridge or subway would be used is that the footbridge would not be subject to any great loading, so could be a cheap structure.  Any subway would have to be built strong enough to withstand the weight of passing locomotives and would consequently be a much more robust and costly structure.

Edited May 4, 2017 by eastglosmog

[Coach bogie]

Just looking through some of my picture books of railways, and in GWR days at least, Swindon,  Wootton Basset and Wantage (all on the main line east of the Badminton cut off and all junction staions), Brinkworth (on the Badminton cut-off) Corsham and Box (on the main line to Bristol) all had footbridges. 

Swindon had both. Station access was via the subway and a footbridge also connected the two platform buildings.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Johnster]

I know some GWR footbridges could be quite elaborate, but not all of them were!  Wantage Road, for instance was a plain plate girder structure, similar to this one at Southam Road http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrsrh290.htm. If doing it in 4mm/ft, you might even manage to use a Wills varigirder kit!  Just make sure you don't have a powerful landowner nearby who has to be placated by an elaborate bit of ironwork.

In addition to the points made above, one other point to remember about whether an overbridge or subway would be used is that the footbridge would not be subject to any great loading, so could be a cheap structure.  Any subway would have to be built strong enough to withstand the weight of passing locomotives and would consequently be a much more robust and costly structure.

 

The footbridge at Severn Tunnel Junction was, IIRC, a very plain affair.  By and large covered footbridges were pretty elaborate and sometimes highly decorative, while open ones were much simpler.  And there were fewer powerful landowners in South Wales, though the SWML skirts the Earl of Plymouth's land at St Fagan's.

[Happy Hippo]

As you mention Swansea, I am going to assume you are modelling the South Wales Main Line somewhere in South Wales.  West of Patchway, all of the smaller stations IIRC had footbridges, even Pilning which was up an embankment, as did Newport High Street, only Cardiff General (Central if you are modern image) had a subway.  Not sure about Llanwern, and I think Marshfield used the road bridge or a sleeper crossing.  Peterstone-Super-Ely, Llantrisant, and Llanharan had road bridges in close proximity as well. 

Peterston-Super-Ely did have a footbridge despite the rail over road bridge at the end of the platforms. the picture in more GW Steam in South Wales, shows the board crossing at the end of the platform with the classic 'Passengers .....must use the Bridge' sign.  A footbridge is also shown on the 1947 edition 6" OS Map of the area.  There was certainly no access from the up platform to the road under the railway bridge.

 

However, although I remember the station well, I do not remember the footbridge!

 

Since the station was un-staffed from 1959 and the number of trains stopping at P-S-E considerably reduced could it be possible that the footbridge was removed and passengers then used the boarded crossing.  Probably because there was only two trains a day that stopped there! 

 

We never ventured onto the up platform as the yard and all the other interesting bits were on the down side of the station, and we only ever crossed to the up side by using the boarded crossing at the end of the platform We then walked across the bridge and along the side of the up line to get to Station House.  I should add that this was always under the direct supervision of my godfather, the late Alf Williams who was the last stationmaster at P-S-E. But if Alf wasn't there, (and once the station became unstaffed) we were under strict instructions and always went the long way round to get to the house. (In those days being told 'no' or 'do not' meant just that.)

 

P-S-E was definitely a wayside station and photos of it are few and far between.

 

it's only real claim to fame is that it was home to a set of exchange sidings that were at the end of the Drope branch which left the old Barry main line nr St Fagans .......... and there was a collision by the west box in 1936 when a passenger train ran into the back of a pannier tank which was parked on the main line after a shunting movement.

 

Sorry for going slightly OT, but mention of P-S-E brings back lots of happy memories.

[Wickham Green]

Just depends on the surrounding landscape.

 

A footbridge is unlikely for any station on an embankment 

Not Great Western, of course, but when they opened the Cross Harbour Link in Belfast a few years ago all was on embankment or viaduct .... Yorkgate station replaced the old York Road terminus and is way above road level - but they equipped it with a footbridge nonetheless ....... unlikely, you say - but don't we love a 'prototype for everything' situation !!?!

[The Johnster]

Peterston-Super-Ely did have a footbridge despite the rail over road bridge at the end of the platforms. the picture in more GW Steam in South Wales, shows the board crossing at the end of the platform with the classic 'Passengers .....must use the Bridge' sign.  A footbridge is also shown on the 1947 edition 6" OS Map of the area.  There was certainly no access from the up platform to the road under the railway bridge.

 

However, although I remember the station well, I do not remember the footbridge!

 

Since the station was un-staffed from 1959 and the number of trains stopping at P-S-E considerably reduced could it be possible that the footbridge was removed and passengers then used the boarded crossing.  Probably because there was only two trains a day that stopped there! 

 

We never ventured onto the up platform as the yard and all the other interesting bits were on the down side of the station, and we only ever crossed to the up side by using the boarded crossing at the end of the platform We then walked across the bridge and along the side of the up line to get to Station House.  I should add that this was always under the direct supervision of my godfather, the late Alf Williams who was the last stationmaster at P-S-E. But if Alf wasn't there, (and once the station became unstaffed) we were under strict instructions and always went the long way round to get to the house. (In those days being told 'no' or 'do not' meant just that.)

 

P-S-E was definitely a wayside station and photos of it are few and far between.

 

it's only real claim to fame is that it was home to a set of exchange sidings that were at the end of the Drope branch which left the old Barry main line nr St Fagans .......... and there was a collision by the west box in 1936 when a passenger train ran into the back of a pannier tank which was parked on the main line after a shunting movement.

 

Sorry for going slightly OT, but mention of P-S-E brings back lots of happy memories.

 

Crossing of busy main lines carrying high speed traffic by passengers using boarded crossings at unstaffed stations would have been a major no-no, and with no staff there would have been no need for a barrow crossing anyway; I would imagine it would have been removed in order to discourage such use.  Trespass notices would be placed on the ends of the platforms, along with the familiar 'Passengers Must Not Cross The Line Except By The Footbridge' cast GWR notices while the footbridge was there.  

 

P-S-E was not a heavily used station and it's passenger traffic consisted, I imagine, largely of commuters heading for Cardiff.  These are creatures of habit and will approach and leave a station on the same side as the train stops at for them; I cannot imagine any of the regulars attempting to cross the line on the ground and there would have been few other passengers anyway. There is always the odd idiot who jumps down from one platform and climbs up on the other one; Darwinism usually thins these out rather brutally...