Kings Cross Loco Yard/Milk Dock closure

[bennyboy]

I've always been fascinated by the area of Kings Cross station with the suburban platforms/Hotel Curve/Milk Dock/Loco Yard ever since Model Trains had an article suggesting building a layout based on it. I believe that the Hotel Curve and some of the Suburban platforms were lifted in the 1977 'Clearing The Throat' remodelling, but that the Milk Dock and loco yard were still in use with the Milk Dock being used to unload Motorail coaches. However I've always wondered when were Motorail services removed from Kings Cross and was the Milk Dock still in use for parcel unloading at this time? Also when did BR stop using the Loco yard and when was it (and presumably the milk dock at the same time) actually lifted?

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Ben

 

Here are some of my photos I took in the early 80s. Milk Yard was still in use but Passenger Loco tracks had been lifted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[anroar53]

I drew a diagram of the Kings Cross New Box from end to end while doing a stint at Finsbury Park between 1979-81. This section of the station area had originally shown the connection to the Loco Yard, but I had obviously amended it before leaving the area in May 1981. I had also modified the 'West' Sidings area at some point during those two years.

 

Andy.

[Ken.W]

I've always been fascinated by the area of Kings Cross station with the suburban platforms/Hotel Curve/Milk Dock/Loco Yard ever since Model Trains had an article suggesting building a layout based on it. I believe that the Hotel Curve and some of the Suburban platforms were lifted in the 1977 'Clearing The Throat' remodelling, but that the Milk Dock and loco yard were still in use with the Milk Dock being used to unload Motorail coaches. However I've always wondered when were Motorail services removed from Kings Cross and was the Milk Dock still in use for parcel unloading at this time? Also when did BR stop using the Loco yard and when was it (and presumably the milk dock at the same time) actually lifted?

Agree Hotel Curve, together with the York Road Curve, would have been taken out use during the 1977 remodelling and inner-suburban electrification as Moorgate services were then diverted away from Kings X onto the current route from Finsbury Park. Also the East bore of Gassworks Tunnel was taken out of use then, which had given access to York Road.

The station loco yard would have fallen out of use sometime fairly shortly afterwards with the virtual demise of regular loco hauled workings, as in Clive's photos above showing it already gone in early eighties. I was seconman on light engine to KX couple of times late 70s / early 80s and we went into the East Sidings.

I suspect the Motorail services were withdrawn at the same time as the EC sleepers, at the start of the ECML electrification works, as many were combined services.

[bennyboy]

Hi Ben

 

Here are some of my photos I took in the early 80s. Milk Yard was still in use but Passenger Loco tracks had been lifted.

 

006.jpg

 

008.jpg

 

011.jpg

 

012.jpg

 

024.jpg

 

025.jpg

 

029.jpg

 

 

Thanks a lot for those pictures as they show rarely seen views of the Milk Dock in the 80s! Also it does clearly show that the loco yard was closed in the early 80s which surprised me as I'd always presumed that it was closed at a much later date.

[bennyboy]

Agree Hotel Curve, together with the York Road Curve, would have been taken out use during the 1977 remodelling and inner-suburban electrification as Moorgate services were then diverted away from Kings X onto the current route from Finsbury Park. Also the East bore of Gassworks Tunnel was taken out of use then, which had given access to York Road.

The station loco yard would have fallen out of use sometime fairly shortly afterwards with the virtual demise of regular loco hauled workings, as in Clive's photos above showing it already gone in early eighties. I was seconman on light engine to KX couple of times late 70s / early 80s and we went into the East Sidings.

I suspect the Motorail services were withdrawn at the same time as the EC sleepers, at the start of the ECML electrification works, as many were combined services.

 

Yeah, I did think that the combination of the electrification of the suburban services and the switching to HST's must have radically reduced the use of loco hauled services in KX. So were the East sidings used for loco stabling as I've always wondered why they were built? And it seems that ECML sleeper services ended in 1988 so I guess that must roughly date the end of Motorail services at KX.

[Three Cocks Junction]

The photos were most interesting. So here it is for the Loco:

 

 

(41N/1979)

THURSDAY 18 OCTOBER 1979 - KINGS CROSS PASSENGER

The locomotive Servicing Depot has been closed and the following alterations to points and signals have been carried out:-

The connection from Loco Spur to “D” route (No. 2011 points) has been secured out of use in the normal position pending removal and the associated ground position light signals (Nos. 10 and 11) have been abolished and the associated routes on signals 12, 14, K290 and K292 have been disconnected. The connections within West Sidings (Nos. 2010B, 2010A and 2009 points) have been converted to hand-operation.

The trap points in West Sidings No. 1 (2009A) have veen (sic) secured out of use in the reverse position pending removal.

A double side illuminated notice board has been provided on the site of former No. 8 ground position light signal worded as follows :-

“STOP TELEPHONE” applicable to movements from West Sidings and an adjacent telephone to the signal box has been provided.

“STOP, AWAIT INSTRUCTIONS” applicable to movements facing from Gas Works Tunnel.

An illuminated “STOP AWAIT INSTRUCTIONS” notice board has been provided adjacent to the hand-worked trap points in the Oil Tank Siding applicable to movements facing from the Tanks.

(Amended Item)  (44)

 

​And for the West Sidings:

 

 

(12N/1988 )

SUNDAY 12 JUNE 1988 - KINGS CROSS STATION

The West Sidings will be taken out of use.

The points leading into the West Sidings will be secured out of use in the normal position pending removal.

All associated signalling will be disconnected.                                                                               (14)

 

Then on 18 September 1988 Platform 11 was brought into use.

[Ken.W]

Yeah, I did think that the combination of the electrification of the suburban services and the switching to HST's must have radically reduced the use of loco hauled services in KX. So were the East sidings used for loco stabling as I've always wondered why they were built? And it seems that ECML sleeper services ended in 1988 so I guess that must roughly date the end of Motorail services at KX.

Yeah the East Sidings seem to have generaly been used for loco stabling, and to have replaced the former loco yard in this role. Their usual current role is for stabling the Thunderbird loco, also 91s doing loco swaps and locos in connection with charter trains.

Again yeah, presumably so, as most Motorail vans were attached to the sleepers

[anroar53]

The photos were most interesting. So here it is for the Loco:

 

 

(41N/1979)

THURSDAY 18 OCTOBER 1979 - KINGS CROSS PASSENGER

The locomotive Servicing Depot has been closed and the following alterations to points and signals have been carried out:-

The connection from Loco Spur to “D” route (No. 2011 points) has been secured out of use in the normal position pending removal and the associated ground position light signals (Nos. 10 and 11) have been abolished and the associated routes on signals 12, 14, K290 and K292 have been disconnected. The connections within West Sidings (Nos. 2010B, 2010A and 2009 points) have been converted to hand-operation.

The trap points in West Sidings No. 1 (2009A) have veen (sic) secured out of use in the reverse position pending removal.

A double side illuminated notice board has been provided on the site of former No. 8 ground position light signal worded as follows :-

“STOP TELEPHONE” applicable to movements from West Sidings and an adjacent telephone to the signal box has been provided.

“STOP, AWAIT INSTRUCTIONS” applicable to movements facing from Gas Works Tunnel.

An illuminated “STOP AWAIT INSTRUCTIONS” notice board has been provided adjacent to the hand-worked trap points in the Oil Tank Siding applicable to movements facing from the Tanks.

(Amended Item)  (44)

 

​And for the West Sidings:

 

 

(12N/1988 )

SUNDAY 12 JUNE 1988 - KINGS CROSS STATION

The West Sidings will be taken out of use.

The points leading into the West Sidings will be secured out of use in the normal position pending removal.

All associated signalling will be disconnected.                                                                               (14)

 

Then on 18 September 1988 Platform 11 was brought into use.

Thought I would do a scan of the next bit as Signals 290 and 292 didn't fit on the first one. I unrolled the entire fifteen feet of the diagram to Biggleswade and Baldock the other night. I was surprised how many sidings and ground frames had been swept away in just over two years. I had amended each one when it was issued in the WON/PON? Some of the bits of paper stuck over the abolished items had started to peel away in places. As the paper is beginning to yellow I suppose I'd better scan the rest of it before the details fade. Going to be a long (literally) job. 

[bennyboy]

The photos were most interesting. So here it is for the Loco:

 

 

(41N/1979)

THURSDAY 18 OCTOBER 1979 - KINGS CROSS PASSENGER

The locomotive Servicing Depot has been closed and the following alterations to points and signals have been carried out:-

The connection from Loco Spur to “D” route (No. 2011 points) has been secured out of use in the normal position pending removal and the associated ground position light signals (Nos. 10 and 11) have been abolished and the associated routes on signals 12, 14, K290 and K292 have been disconnected. The connections within West Sidings (Nos. 2010B, 2010A and 2009 points) have been converted to hand-operation.

The trap points in West Sidings No. 1 (2009A) have veen (sic) secured out of use in the reverse position pending removal.

A double side illuminated notice board has been provided on the site of former No. 8 ground position light signal worded as follows :-

“STOP TELEPHONE” applicable to movements from West Sidings and an adjacent telephone to the signal box has been provided.

“STOP, AWAIT INSTRUCTIONS” applicable to movements facing from Gas Works Tunnel.

An illuminated “STOP AWAIT INSTRUCTIONS” notice board has been provided adjacent to the hand-worked trap points in the Oil Tank Siding applicable to movements facing from the Tanks.

(Amended Item)  (44)

 

​And for the West Sidings:

 

 

(12N/1988 )

SUNDAY 12 JUNE 1988 - KINGS CROSS STATION

The West Sidings will be taken out of use.

The points leading into the West Sidings will be secured out of use in the normal position pending removal.

All associated signalling will be disconnected.                                                                               (14)

 

Then on 18 September 1988 Platform 11 was brought into use.

 

Thanks for those definite answers to my questions! I did some research myself and I found this thread in the LNER forum about the Passenger Loco Yard and someone did mention that it closed in 1979, but there's also a few more photos of the area if anyone else is interested.

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6311&hilit=milk+dock

[bennyboy]

Yeah the East Sidings seem to have generaly been used for loco stabling, and to have replaced the former loco yard in this role. Their usual current role is for stabling the Thunderbird loco, also 91s doing loco swaps and locos in connection with charter trains.

Again yeah, presumably so, as most Motorail vans were attached to the sleepers

 

Thanks. I did some Googling for pictures of the East Sidings and it made me realise that they must have been built during the 1977 'Clearing The Throat" as I saw a picture of them in use from 1978. And it seems that they were altered in 2010 in order to accommodate the new Platform 0.

 

Also I found someone mentioning how a lot of the changes made to Kings Cross in 1977 were actually planned decades earlier as according to them....

 

" They were done in the late 1950's & early 1960's when, under the modernisation scheme, it looked like the GN suburban electrification was going to be done. At KX quite a few changes were planned. As the widened line services were planned to come off (apart from the freights) the Pass Loco was going to be transfered to the east side and the power box was to be situated on the site of the pass loco, by the tunnels. There was going to some remodelling of the suburban side to accomodate the longer trains and a couple of sidings would have remained in the pass loco to act as headshunts to the remodelled milk dock as well as the diesel fuel oil off loading area - it would be piped across underground from the existing tanks.

East Goods was indeed going to be the depot for the EMUs with a washer put in on the upside to the south roughly parallel to where the emirates stadium is now. It was also going to be the site of the depot in the late 1960's plan, which eventually came to fruition, apart from that depot site! The National Freight Plan saw the end of Ferme Park Up as a freight yard and, as we know, the EMU depot went there.

 

You can see how the signalling technology moved on within just a few years as the next power box was planned to be at Finsbury Park."

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5136&p=45891&hilit=milk+dock#p45891

[Swindon 123]

Kings Cross loco closed on Sunday on 13th May 1979. I started at Kings Cross the next day, Mon 14th May, and whilst waiting for a Traction Trainee course to start, worked on the platforms at "The Cross" for 5 weeks. Had KX Loco had not closed I would have spent those 5 weeks working in the loco as an engine cleaner, (yes they still had that role, believe it or not). The loco yard track wasn't lifted until the end of 1980/January 1981, although I never saw it used after it was closed. Below is a photo taken in January 1981 showing the final stages of lifting taking place.

A181A-020 by Paul James, on FlickrA181A-020 by Paul James, on Flickr

 

 

Paul J.

 

Edited to make the photo larger than in original post.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Swindon 123

[bennyboy]

Thanks Paul, although that's a rather sad picture to see. Do you know if the infrastructure such as the oil tanks and the buildings were removed at the same time?

[bennyboy]

Paul, I hope you don't mind me posting this other great picture of yours.

 

A181C-016 by Jamerail, on Flickr

[bennyboy]

Here's some more pictures of the area that I've found on Flickr.

 

 

31 159 on the Motorail shunt at London Kings Cross. 25/05/85. by Adrian Nicholls, on Flickr

 

 

Class 31, Kings Cross by nigelmenzies, on Flickr

 

Kings Cross platform 9 3/4 by David Flett, on Flickr

 

 

Classes 31 and 47 Kings Cross Loco Jul75-p18masfdqk1mo37j3dckocc82t by Alan Rintoul, on Flickr

 

Kings Cross Parcel Sidings by Warsop 37, on Flickr

 

gb_760811_31407KX copy by MUTTLEY'S PIX, on Flickr

 

31xxx | Kings Cross [1983-002-005] by Brian McCulloch, on Flickr

Kings Cross Interregnum by brentford40, on Flickr

Peak, Kings X by Will Welch, on Flickr

 

Kings Cross 7 September 1976 by davelindsell, on Flickr

 

 

[Swindon 123]

Thanks Paul, although that's a rather sad picture to see. Do you know if the infrastructure such as the oil tanks and the buildings were removed at the same time?

I left "The Cross" in Sept 84 and I'm pretty sure the buildings were still there then, not 100% sure about the tanks though. I think they had started to be cut up. Everything except the stacked portacabins had gone by Sept 85 according to the photo in the link below.

https://flic.kr/p/exBSb

 

The stacked portacabins hung around until mid 1988 at least.

 

Paul J.

[Clive Mortimore]

Right I am not happy. Why do people keep coming up with more wonderful photos of the recesses of Kings Cross when I have abandoned any hope of ever building it as it was in the late 60s. 

 

Well before such things as Templot, using a large scale OS map which showed the track plan I hand drew the track plan in 4mm scale. It took months. I wanted to build Kings Cross and over the years collected loads of information. Next week I retire and the following week we move to what I hope will be my last home before the nursing home and the realisation that I will not be able to build Kings Cross before I die has set in so in the reducing the tut to be moved I have sadly said good bye to my 4mm paper Kings Cross. All is not lost, I have been given quite a big room for my layout Sheffield Exchange Mk2 which has been inspired by the track plan when the throat was remodelled in 1977.

[chris p bacon]

Go on Clive.....you know you want to.....

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Notwithstanding the above, I've a feeling that KX Passenger Loco was out of use before the October '79 date mentioned.

 

I was working in London from May '79, and often popped into KX in the evening on my way home. I'll have to check my spotting books, but I don't recall seeing any locos in the servicing point.

 

Locos would back down into the station directly from FP, or be stabled in the East Sidings.

 

Possibly May '79, at the date of the timetable change, was when it ceased functioning.

[Swindon 123]

Notwithstanding the above, I've a feeling that KX Passenger Loco was out of use before the October '79 date mentioned.

 

I was working in London from May '79, and often popped into KX in the evening on my way home. I'll have to check my spotting books, but I don't recall seeing any locos in the servicing point.

 

Locos would back down into the station directly from FP, or be stabled in the East Sidings.

 

Possibly May '79, at the date of the timetable change, was when it ceased functioning.

See post 12. It closed on 13th May 1979.

 

Paul J.

[bennyboy]

I left "The Cross" in Sept 84 and I'm pretty sure the buildings were still there then, not 100% sure about the tanks though. I think they had started to be cut up. Everything except the stacked portacabins had gone by Sept 85 according to the photo in the link below.

https://flic.kr/p/exBSb

 

The stacked portacabins hung around until mid 1988 at least.

 

Paul J.

 

That's another great photo Paul, especially as it shows how that area of KX had been abandoned by this time apart from the West Sidings.

[bennyboy]

 

KING'S CROSS LOCO DEPOT WITH DELTIC'S ,CLASS 47,CLASS 31 AND A CLASS 312 ELECTRIC READY TO DEPART by taxi942, on Flickr

 

 

KING'S CROSS LOCO DEPOT WITH A DELTIC AND CLASS 47 by taxi942, on Flickr

 

A DELTIC AND CLASS 47 AT KING'S CROSS LOCO DEPOT by taxi942, on Flickr

 

KING'S CROSS LOCO DEPOT WITH DELTIC'S,CLASS 47 AND CLASS 31 by taxi942, on Flickr

 

 

KING'S CROSS LOCO DEPOT WITH DELTIC'S,CLASS 47's AND A CLASS 45 by taxi942, on Flickr

 

 

[philiprporter]

Does anyone know what sort of oil tankers were used at the Kings Cross stabling point and whether any O gauge kits or RTR models of these are available? 

[Clive Mortimore]

Does anyone know what sort of oil tankers were used at the Kings Cross stabling point and whether any O gauge kits or RTR models of these are available? 

Hi Phil

 

Depends on the date of your modelling.

 

Early years saw unfitted tank wagons of 10 to 14 load of various vintages. The diesel was siphoned from the top of the tanks before unloading facilities were added. 

 

By the mid sixites it depended on the company who had the contract covering the six month period each contract ran. Shell- BP seemed to win more than the others but Esso did have a good share as well.

 

Shell-BP used unfitted tanks until the mid sixties, these would have been B tanks in black livery. After about 64/65 time they were delivering fuel in 45 ton GLW wagons (later TTAs). To start with black liveried B tanks would used, later both black B tanks and grey liveried A tanks were used. Diesel is classed as a B product because of its high flash point but unlike most B products it is clean so can be carried in either type of tanks. It wasn't unit the late fifties/early sixties that the valves on a tanks were good enough for bottom discharge so early unfitted grey/silver A tanks were unloaded by siphoning.

 

Esso used both 35 ton GLW tanks and 45 ton GLW tanks, again both A and B tanks could be seen at Kings Cross. I cannot recall any photos of Esso unfitted tanks at Kings Cross.

 

Mobil tanks were used in early days, these were unfitted and siphoned unloaded. Later in the late sixties or early seventies their tanks had a spell of delivering fuel in 45 ton GLW wagons.

 

Other companies could have delivered diesel but I cannot recall any others than I have mentioned.

 

As for what is available in 7 mm I am not sure as I am a 4mm modeller. I am sure someone can help.

[philiprporter]

Hi Phil

 

Depends on the date of your modelling.

 

Early years saw unfitted tank wagons of 10 to 14 load of various vintages. The diesel was siphoned from the top of the tanks before unloading facilities were added. 

 

By the mid sixites it depended on the company who had the contract covering the six month period each contract ran. Shell- BP seemed to win more than the others but Esso did have a good share as well.

 

Shell-BP used unfitted tanks until the mid sixties, these would have been B tanks in black livery. After about 64/65 time they were delivering fuel in 45 ton GLW wagons (later TTAs). To start with black liveried B tanks would used, later both black B tanks and grey liveried A tanks were used. Diesel is classed as a B product because of its high flash point but unlike most B products it is clean so can be carried in either type of tanks. It wasn't unit the late fifties/early sixties that the valves on a tanks were good enough for bottom discharge so early unfitted grey/silver A tanks were unloaded by siphoning.

 

Esso used both 35 ton GLW tanks and 45 ton GLW tanks, again both A and B tanks could be seen at Kings Cross. I cannot recall any photos of Esso unfitted tanks at Kings Cross.

 

Mobil tanks were used in early days, these were unfitted and siphoned unloaded. Later in the late sixties or early seventies their tanks had a spell of delivering fuel in 45 ton GLW wagons.

 

Other companies could have delivered diesel but I cannot recall any others than I have mentioned.

 

As for what is available in 7 mm I am not sure as I am a 4mm modeller. I am sure someone can help.

Hi Clive - wow that's fantastic thanks so much! GIven that I'm interested in the 1970s I'm assuming that the Heljan B tanks are a little too 'early' for that period? I had hoped that someone would produce a TTA kit, but I cant seem to find one except the long-discontinued JLTRT kit? Thanks once again for the very informative response Clive.

Best wishes, Phil.