Cromford Wharf BR(C&HPR)

[JustinDean]

Hi folks this is my first post here and a return to modelling after a short 26 year break. I've been lured back in by my partner and her family; a visit to Warley with the father-in-law along with purchasing a DJModels J94 sealed the deal. Back in my teenage years I managed to win and come runner up in the Railway Modeller Junior Cup so the last time I exhibited was at IMREX in (I think) 1991. Like many others I constructed many GWR branch line terminus, was in awe of Pendon and swallowed up as much info from Wild Swan publications as much as possible. These days I live in the beautiful town of Wirksworth in the Peaks and have chosen to model nearby Cromford Wharf in 60's era BR steam. The reasons why? I've been walking and cycling the High Peak trail for a couple of years now and this being the trackbed of the Cromford and High Peak Railway along with its many restored buildings sparked my interest. I've spent the last 6 months researching the line (specifically the Cromford Wharf site) and thanks to the internet there are a wealth of photos available to gain information on buildings, track layouts, stock and details which will help bring this layout to life.

 

This is probably a good point to mention another forum member here is also building a very fine layout of Cromford here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121657-cromford-wharf-shunting-layout-structures-and-scenery/page-1

 

There's an amazing layout of Sheep Pasture (top of the incline from Cromford) by Robin Whittle:

http://glevums4.co.uk/sheep-pasture.html

 

I've also gained a lot of inspiration and discovered some new techniques reading through the blog of this gentleman, Chris Nevard:

http://www.nevard.com/

 

So onto the build. This is going to be an OO layout, approximately 12 feet long with varying width. In the past I've planned layouts to the nth degree and had 4'x2' boards that link together. This time I'm taking an entirely different approach. Instead of making all the boards, laying all the track, creating all the ground work and so on, I've split the site into thirds and I'm going to complete each section in full, then 'bed' each section into larger scenic boards. In my head this totally makes sense and will probably cause problems down the line but that's all part of the fun. First of all I'm building the North end, engine shed area. This is the only part where the original building don't exists so having lots of photos was paramount. So far I've built a 'sub board' for the trackbed, laid some Peco code75 and used Chris Nevard's technique of using modelling clay and fine ballast. The mix of these two materials varies across the board to match the prototype. I'm also partway through building the engine shed. This is my first ever attempt at using DAS for stonework and using scribed card for doors and the roof. Here's some work in progress shots:

 

This is how the trackbed is looking:

 

I bought a couple of the rather nice illuminated buffer stops:

 

...and the engine shed:

[JustinDean]

For those unfamiliar with Cromford Wharf here's a couple of maps. It was quite literally a stones throw from the Derby - Manchester mainline and featured a canal wharf, engine shed, workshop facilities and was the starting point of a 1 in 8 incline.

[JustinDean]

So keeping in mind for starters I'm tackling the engine shed area, these photos illustrate what I'm taking on initially. Part of my reasoning is that I want to treat each section like a diorama, so I can focus attention and detail on small areas rather than have a huge expanse at the end to deal with. Also treating each third almost like a separate layout means I'm essentially building three layouts which will link up at the end - keeping each process of the build fairly short so my attention doesn't wander! 

 

[Alister_G]

Heyup Justin,

 

Well this is a nice surprise! Thank you for your post on my thread, and also your mention in your first post.

 

It's great to see someone else having a go at Cromford, and it looks as though you've made a cracking start, I really like your ground cover, and the engine shed is very impressive - much more so than mine, which is just embossed plastic - I don't have the patience to hand-scribe all the stonework as you have done.

 

It's an interesting idea to do it in smaller modules which can be joined together, and sounds like a good idea to maintain your interest.

 

You've got some photos here which I haven't seen before, as well, particularly those of the back of the shed area.

 

I wish you all the very best with this,

 

Al.

[vulcan product fan]

So keeping in mind for starters I'm tackling the engine shed area, these photos illustrate what I'm taking on initially. Part of my reasoning is that I want to treat each section like a diorama, so I can focus attention and detail on small areas rather than have a huge expanse at the end to deal with. Also treating each third almost like a separate layout means I'm essentially building three layouts which will link up at the end - keeping each process of the build fairly short so my attention doesn't wander! 

CW Engine shed 1.jpg

CW Engine shed 2.jpg

CW Engine shed 3.jpg

CW Engine shed 4.jpg

CW Engine shed 5.jpg

CW Engine shed 6.jpg

CW Engine shed 7.jpg

CW Engine shed 8.jpg

super photos and another great idear will follow 

[JustinDean]

Great to hear from you Al and thanks for the kind words! Armed with an engineers scribe the DAD stonework isn’t as difficult as it may seem. Another reason for tackling this in small sections is to evaluate techniques I haven’t used before and this was one of them. Still don’t think I’ve captured the yellow tint of Derbyshire stone yet though.

The engine shed photos weee particularly buried on the net- I have found a lot of photos scattered around and would be happy to email the lot to you if you like?

J

[JustinDean]

Luckily there’s also some great resources available in book form:



I particularly like the John Evans book - it really captures a feel and atmosphere that I aim to recreate. I guess this layout will be a small homage to John’s photos.

Edited January 28, 2018 by JustinDean

[rockershovel]

Fascinating to see period pics of an area I know quite well

[Alister_G]

 Still don’t think I’ve captured the yellow tint of Derbyshire stone yet though.

 

I think you've done a great job of the scribing, and your colouring isn't far off.

 

I notice, though, that you've used quite a few bluey-grey colours on your stone:

 

 

which if you look at the real thing, aren't there:

 

 

I know it varies a lot depending on the light, but there's almost a salmon tint to some of the stone.

 

If you stick to brown and tan colours, and don't use grey, I think you'll have it spot on.

 

For mine, I used Humbrol Matt Tan No 237 as a base coat and for the mortar, and then I used diluted Matt Sand No 63, and Matt Flesh No 61 as washes to pick out certain stones, and then overall dilute washes of Matt Dark Earth No 29, and Matt Black Green No 91 for the dark patina on the stones.

 

All the best mate,

 

Al.

[JustinDean]

Thanks for the advice Al - this is the area I've most struggled with. I'll be revisiting the shed with a paint brush for sure!

[JustinDean]

Been adding some rust to trackwork. Most of this track is going to get covered in static grass - waiting for an applicator in the post. The bare edge at the front will form a stone wall for the canal while the area in the background was previously used as a loading area, is raised and houses an old LNWR full brake used as a mess shed.

[JustinDean]

 

I bought some Woodland scenics tree armatures- another new development since my younger modelling days. Not quite right in the position shown above so I’m going to scratchbuild some trees for this section. Tonight i’ll Be starting the retaining wall that runs across the back of the layout. Part of this is stone which will be made from DAS but the majority is brick. I’ve bought some plasticard for the job but still wondering how you can make a good join with this stuff. I really don’t want to see a line running through the wall part way down the layout. Does anyone have any tips?

Cheers

J

[Alister_G]

That's looking very good J.

 

To answer your question about joining embossed sheets.

 

There are three main ways to avoid the horrible straight line where the joins are, firstly hide them with foliage, or a buttress or a telegraph pole or a downpipe, you get the idea.

 

Secondly, take the time to cut away the butting ends of the sheets so that the courses of stone or brick interlock, like this:

 

 

However this does still tend to show as a vertical line, although not as marked.

 

The third option which is even more fiddly, and wasteful of material, is to cut the courses at a diagonal, like this:

 

.

 

As a practical example, here's a row of terraced cottages I built for Grindleford last year. You can see that the bottom section is a straight joint between the two large windows, but the upper section is cut on a diagonal across the upstairs window aperture:

 

 

With a base coat of paint, the upper diagonal join disappears completely, as you can see:

 

 

Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

Cheers,

 

Al

[JustinDean]

Thanks Al, your cottages look great! Definitely going to make the diagonal join - something to look forward to post work tonight! :-)

[JustinDean]

The DJModels J94 got me going on this - I’ve started thinking about locos and stock as this is all I own right now. Seems like there’s a fair amount of kits and ready to run that would suit the C&HPR but I also fancy trying my hand at some scratchbuilding. One of this lines features was the use of tenders to move water:

 

 

These seem like a good place to start. Any recommendations for chassis parts?

 

I should add that it may seem that I’m jumping between different aspects of the build - it means if I have 10 minutes or a few hours to hand I can tailor to the time available. Very important when you’re self employed!

[Velopeur]

London Road Models sell kits of LNWR tenders

 

https://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/locos-tenders-chassis/lnwr/

[Jol Wilkinson]

The six wheel water carrier looks like a Webb 1500 gallon tender without the tank top flared edges, coal rails, tank top lateral "dividers" and tool boxes.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Jol Wilkinson

[Middlepeak]

 

You beat me to it Jol. That was what I used for my water tenders on Middlepeak. This is an unusal shot though, as this tender has obviously been recently renovated in the works and has a new coat of paint. Interesting also that the centre wheels are retained, which would limit its use to the short section between High Peak Junction and Cromford Wharf. Most tenders had their centre axle removed so that they could operate over the incline tops at Sheep Pasture and Middleton.

 

The HMRS published an article about the tenders in their magazine many years ago, written by Harry Jack if I recall correctly. I'll try to dig it out and PM you a copy Justin.

 

Regards,

 

Geraint

[JustinDean]

You beat me to it Jol. That was what I used for my water tenders on Middlepeak. This is an unusal shot though, as this tender has obviously been recently renovated in the works and has a new coat of paint. Interesting also that the centre wheels are retained, which would limit its use to the short section between High Peak Junction and Cromford Wharf. Most tenders had their centre axle removed so that they could operate over the incline tops at Sheep Pasture and Middleton.The HMRS published an article about the tenders in their magazine many years ago, written by Harry Jack if I recall correctly. I'll try to dig it out and PM you a copy Justin.Regards,Geraint

Thanks Geraint that would be most useful. I believe one of these tenders survives down at Wirksworth Station so will pop down to have a look sometime. Meanwhile, here’s a shot of a tender with centre wheels removed. I particularly enjoy how the worker and his bike are planning to get a ‘lift’ -

[Mim]

The McConnell four wheel tenders are very early and date from the 1860's. The LNWR Society can provide a drawing of one, which looks close to the C&HPR tender pictured. It is LOCO279 LNWR 15in Mixed Traffic Engines Class N 1000 Gallon Tender Side, Front Elevation & Plan Original Wolverton 1862. I'll be using it to build a model. The locomotive tenders were converted to bowsers with a conventional set of buffers and draw gear at the loco end, plus a hand rail to stop the crew falling off when they were filling the tank, or operating the brake wheel.

 

The surviving tender at Wirksworth is one of the later Webb ones. This has it's centre wheels reinstated, but as Middlepeak says, they were generally removed for working the inclines. I plan to base my model on a kit that is available in 2mm scale and is a shrink down from 4mm. It could well be a shrink from the London Road Models artwork, but I am not 100% certain.

 

I'm also modelling part of this railway, but further up the hill and in 2mm scale. Good luck with your layout. It is a fascinating railway and all credit to Derbyshire County Council for preserving so much of it for us to see over 50 years after closure.

 

Mim

Edited February 1, 2018 by Mim

[Jol Wilkinson]

The tender at the bottom of the incline has a McConnel 6 wheel underframe, possibly the short wheelbase version, although that isn't entirely clear from the photo. 

 

​I've attached a photo from the test build LRM SWB tender which may be of interest.

 

SWB

 

 

 

[Mim]

A little bit about the surviving C&HPR Webb water tender at Wirksworth. I'd wondered why it now has centre wheels, springs and axle boxes of the same type as the outer ones. The picture in post 15 suggests that it had all six wheels fitted at least some times during the lines operation and was probably in this state when it closed. 

 

Mim

[JustinDean]

This is great stuff chaps, and precisely the reason why forums exist!

Yep, that underframe looks bob on. Having never worked with brass I'm wondering how easily the body (removing those flares) could be altered to match. Do any kits exist for that 4 wheel tender or is that scratchbuilding territory?

Cheers

J

[JustinDean]

Mim - following your Middleton Top layout with interest. I was torn between there and Cromford when deciding which location to model. A friend of mine works for DCC and used to run that site so have been in the engine house a number of times. It was indeed very forward thinking of DCC to purchase so much of the C&HPR! I live a 15 minute walk form Middleton Top so if you ever need any site photos let me know.

Cheers

J

[Jol Wilkinson]

A little bit about the surviving C&HPR Webb water tender at Wirksworth. I'd wondered why it now has centre wheels, springs and axle boxes of the same type as the outer ones. The picture in post 15 suggests that it had all six wheels fitted at least some times during the lines operation and was probably in this state when it closed. 

 

Mim

The wheels look like the cast H spoke wheels used on some Coal Engine tenders and Coal Tank radial trucks (there may have been others).