Western diesel loco

[class37418stag]

Hiya

Anyone know or seen the london,midland,eastern region of class 14 , 43 , 52?

 

Thank you and merry xmas

[Kris]

By class 43 do you mean the HST or the Warship class?

[Allegheny1600]

Hello Andrew,

I don't think any class 14s worked onto the LMR or ER during their BR ownership but do a search through the "Heljan class 14" topic to see instances where they did (later on).

Class 42/43 "Warship" diesel hydraulics tended to usually work onto the southern region more than any other.

Class 42/43 are pretty much identical visually!

Class 52 "Western" diesel hydraulics (and class 35 "Hymeks"!) probably made the most incursions into LMR territory at places like Birmingham and Oxford but my understanding is that midland region men did not like or trust the hydraulics and sent them back home, sharpish!

There are occasional railtours where Westerns did go off region, probably most famously in Feb 1977 to York!

There are many websites that can be found through a google search - but they do absorb a good deal of time while you (enjoy!) reading through them.

Cheers,

John E.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Class 14 - Over half the class were reallocated to the Hull area, ending their days there before withdrawal in 1968. Many subsequently re-used in industry in the North East and Lincolnshire.

 

Class 43 "Warships" - Not unknown on the ER in the London area/Lea Valley on freight. Also appeared in the B'ham area on Paddington - Shrewsbury route in early/mid 1960s.

 

Class 52 - Regularly appeared at B'ham New Street on services from Paddington in mid 1970s. Also on freight trains (often stone trains in connection with Motorway construction) at places like Leagrave (southern end of Midland Main Line).

[The Stationmaster]

Always a good idea to send Class 52s towards the LM Region - they didn't have any traction knowledge on the Class so you knew you'd always get your loco back

[byron]

It was not always a good idea to send class 52's to the LM, with the hope of getting them back! Some Crewe men signed them (remember some were built at Crewe). I recall remanning a 52 at Gresty Lane and it ended up at York. A great case of "up yours Broad Gauge".

 

Warships worked into Stoke from Bescot for a couple of years in the early 70's, and class 35's were not unknown at Gresty Lane Crewe.

 

Power was always short during my days in Stoke Control - if it had wheels it was used.

 

Mike

[class37418stag]

By class 43 do you mean the HST or the Warship class?

i means class 43 old loco in 1960 of warship class

 

thank you

[EddieB]

Westerns occasionally worked freight to Temple Mills yard (ER), I have a record of D1010 there from 1972.

[roythebus]

I remember the class 52 Kings Cross-York special. I was secondman on the class 31 that brought the ecs in from Bounds Green!!

[stewartingram]

Although I missed seeing both of them, we had a 52 at Cambridge on 2 occasions. Around 1964? I believe it was D1008 that worked in via the oxford-Bletchley-Bedford route, and was seen by a number of our trainspotting gang at school. Again, and almost certainly before 1968 (from memory) we had another visit by a 52, it may even have been the same one. The visits were scratched into the paintwork on the fenceposts at the cattle market railings (a favourite trainspotting haunt) for many years! I suspect that both visits were football specials, Cambridge United were promoted to the League (div 4) around this time) We rarely got railtours in those days, and it was still the period when diesel classes had their "home ground". If anyone knows more of these visits, I would certainly like to know!

[D6975]

D1013 made it as far as Leeds on a passenger service from the West Country and worked straight back south again. It was meant to be replaced at Brum, but no spare locos were available so it worked the train throughout.

 

edit - just done a bit of checking and it was 20 Jan 1977, the train was the 07:30 Swansea-Leeds, well I remembered the loco correctly...

[StaffsOatcake]

The Warships turned up at Crewe on a fairly regular basis for a time. And you could even see the Warships tootling round Scotland. Albeit on test from North British.

[multiprinter]

The Warships turned up at Crewe on a fairly regular basis for a time. And you could even see the Warships tootling round Scotland. Albeit on test from North British.

 

The Warships normally reached Crewe on services via the North & West line. Westerns were, I think, fairly rare on the North & West.

[Guest Phil]

The NBL built Warships which are regarded as class 43 are one of the subjects of study for me during the period 1967-1969. Working from a number of sources I am trying to pull together as much factual information as I can on the "transfer" of some of these to work in the West Midlands.

 

It appears the BR regional honchos agreed for some 43s to be given diagrammed work on the LMR, to the point of sending a number of fitters to Newton Abbot for training on the type,as well as the training of a number of LMR drivers on the class. From what I can surmise, the "Warships" had already been trialled on the Paddington-Birminghams earlier in the 1960s but found to be slightly underpowered for the composition of train on the route - resulting in the more powerful "D1000"s taking over.

 

A number of trains were apparently diagrammed, although the diagrams themselves appear to have been lost in the mists of time and reorganisation. These range from passenger through milk and parcels to freight. The locos retained WR ownership and depot allocation and could probably regarded as "on loan" for the periods on the LMR. From records I have Bescot drivers appear to have worked the following trains with them ;

 

3V36 Wolverhampton HL-Exchange Sidings-Coventry-Banbury

3K26 Wellington (later Shrewsbury) - Crewe

8J05 Bescot-Wellington-Coton Hill

light diesels between Coton Hill and Salop shed, and Crewe-Bescot via Stafford, as well as ferry trips to Old Oak Common.

 

"Wilbur6402", in the previous version of RMweb advised that class 43s worked Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton passenger trains, as he had haulage records for at least six. I've tried to contact Wilbur via PM but havn't received a response. Does anyone on here know him ?

 

Stoke is one destination I have heard mention of in relation to class 43s, but have no evidence. Perhaps Byron can rattle the grey matter around and tell us more ?

 

As I said, my research is ongoing, but I intend to dedicate a chapter to the operation of class 43s at Bescot in my book about the West Midlands depot. I believe this period commenced in August 1967 and ended in the early days of 1969.

[byron]

Hi Phil

 

The class 43's never had diagrammed work into either Crewe or Stoke, and were only used when Brum was short of power, and the Bescot men had traction knowledge. The loco's became available when the LM took control of the Broad Gauge in the west midlands.

I did keep records of all my Control shifts - but moves and a tidy house(wife) has helped them disappear!

From my recollections, the 43's were used on "out and home" diagrams, and worked class 7 freights from Bescot yard to the Stoke area. Workings from Bescot to Basford Hall Crewe was less common. There were never any booked trains,and the workings were never more than a couple of times a week at the most, and lasted a couple of timetable periods.

 

Working on the "West is Best" route from Craven Arms to Crewe Gresty Lane, anything was possible, the 43's were not regular traction - under powered for trains booked with 47's. The same applied to 35's - I can only recall 2 in 10 years. Class 52's did appear from time to time - often on the Severn Tunnel to Halewood Ford company trains. These were if at all possible piloted through to Halewood, and worked the return train. Hereford train crew were partial to the overtime!

 

If I find my logs I will post details of what happened on my shifts, but do not hold your breath!

 

I hope these ramblings help.

 

Mike

[Coach bogie]

D836-865, the North British build 43 Warships, all ran via the LMR on their delivery run from Glasgow. As a child I was on holiday in Lancaster when D863 came through heading south ex works.

 

Not on your list but all 101 Hymeks ran on the Midland Region being built in Manchester. A regular running in turn was Manchester to Derby and back, often still in grey primer.

 

Hope this helps

 

MW

[Phil Bullock]

Hi folks

 

A regular booked turn to Bescot was 6M52/53 clayliners - a fairly regular 52 turn from St Blazey, loco swapped for sparky for run on to Etruria before returning with empties. Hae also I am sure seen phots of earlier workings of this train via Oxford with a class 43 before it was routed via Cheltenham - different reporting number though.

 

And hydraulics also reached Bum from Worcester on Parcels workings - out and home I suspect - 35s and 43s

 

Llandarcy - Rowley Regis tanks could also produce a 52.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil Bullock

 

 

[Phil Bullock]

Oh - and if I remember correctly D1025 made it to York on a train load of cars in the 60s. And D1000s also had some work on S Wales - S Yorks freights as far as Brum in the early 60s.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[Pennine MC]

 

And hydraulics also reached Bum

 

 

 

Nah, we've said in another thread that they weren't that bad

 

 

[johnw1]

Farewell specials took a couple of class 52's to unusual places, here is D1023 departing Derby for York

http://pics-by-john.photoblog.org.uk/p47435888.html

 

Also 1052 Western Viceroy arrived at Tinsley on the 2nd March 1975 with a freight service from Severn Tunnel Junction returning light engine to Saltley.

[Phil Bullock]

Nah, we've said in another thread that they weren't that bad

 

 

 

Hee hee fat fingers again! B)

 

1M72 Plymouth - Manchester and 1V87 Liverpool - Plymouth were also a fairly regular turn via Gloucester to and from BNS for a 52 in the early 70s - Explorer and Sentinel seemed to be regular performers, Renown also seen.

 

Phil

[Phil Bullock]

I've used a box file, with some home made sections of corrugated card. You can get a rake of coaches in quite easily.

He does do OO/HO versions as Granddadbob shows above.

IMHO they are a very worthwhile investment. I use them for EMUs and they are around £100 for a two car set, so for four sets in a RUB 10litre box ..... need I say more?

Easy storage and removal particularly at exhibitions.

 

John

I think there are some "proper modellers" who are quite happy with Lima and even Hornby stuff. Much of it benefits from some work but takes no more work than Bachmann or new Hornby stuff.

 

But I REALLY don't want to get back into the "rtr modifier vs. box opener" argument if you don't mind. The sun will blow up in six billion years and I hope not to still be discussing Lima vs Bachmann....

Hee hee fat fingers again!

 

1M72 Plymouth - Manchester and 1V87 Liverpool - Plymouth were also a fairly regular turn via Gloucester to and from BNS for a 52 in the early 70s - Explorer and Sentinel seemed to be regular performers, Renown also seen.

 

Phil

Sorry that's fat fingers again up working was 1m22.

 

And rather incredibly a 43 made it through to Crewe on 1S56 Newton Abbott to Stirling motorail in the summer of 71. Those lovely new Bacchy 43 s are going to be busy through abbotswood......

 

Edited to correct my fat finger errors created when typing on my mobile....

 

Phil

[slilley]

Westerns occasionally worked freight to Temple Mills yard (ER), I have a record of D1010 there from 1972.

Remarkable as this may seem but some Hymeks were sent over to Stratford DRS for tyre turning. When working on Class 47 50 Years of Locomotive History I spent several afternoons with a former fitter there who had all the old records from what turned up and why, he was a foreman of some sort, and was somewhat surprised to see several Hymeks listed at different times.