Mel_H Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'm sure this question's been asked before (but I can't find it if it has). Does anyone know what typical formations of the ECML trains using the Met Camm Pullmans were? I'm interested in the period when they were painted in the reversed blue/grey livery. Sample locos would be welcome too. Thanks in advance. Mel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'm sure Robert Carroll will have a copy of a Passenger Train Marshalling book for the ECML between 1970-1977. I've just had a look on the Yahoo Coaching Stock forum but there are no pdfs currently available for this period. Diesels out of Kings Cross certainly shows a Deltic on the Tees - Tyne Pullman at New Southgate in 1975 and a Class 47 on the same train at Welwyn Garden City in 1972. Fotopic has found this photo. Formation appears to be: 5 TSO (Mk2D, the Airfix/Mainline/Hornby model), RB (the old Mainline model), 2 Pullman First Kitchen, Pullman First Parlour, Pullman First Kitchen, BG (Pullmans at London end). As the text states (and looking at the other photos mentioned) the train ran with one less TSO and 2 Pullman First Parlour coaches (next to each other) Monday to Thursday. The Hull Pullman is shown here. Formation being: Pullman First Kitchen, Pullman First Parlour, Pullman First Kitchen, RU, RMB (both of these are currently made by Bachmann), TSOs (number unknown), either BG or BSO. This photo shows 4 TSOs and a BSO at the other end, 1D05 was the Hull Pullman not the Yorkshire Pullman as the text states. The Yorkshire Pullman is here. Formation: BG, Pullman First Parlour, Pullman First Kitchen, TSO, Restaurant unknown, 4 TSO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnw1 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'm sure this question's been asked before (but I can't find it if it has). Does anyone know what typical formations of the ECML trains using the Met Camm Pullmans were? I'm interested in the period when they were painted in the reversed blue/grey livery. Sample locos would be welcome too. Thanks in advance. Mel See attached http://pics-by-john.photoblog.org.uk/p61798795.html for the Yorkshire Pullman on the 6th March 1976. Formation looks like Mark I BG + 2x Metro Cam Pulmans + Mark IId FO + Mark I RF + 3x Mark IId SO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted November 15, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi, Attached are a few photos from my fotopic site at: http://daveseastmidl...ve.fotopic.net/ I think there a few more photos on it, from memory. Frinkley Lane LC up Yorkshire Pullman Oct 75 Little Bytham Class 47 up Yorkshire Pullman Sept 70 David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 See attached http://pics-by-john..../p61798795.html for the Yorkshire Pullman on the 6th March 1976. Formation looks like Mark I BG + 2x Metro Cam Pulmans + Mark IId FO + Mark I RF + 3x Mark IId SO. Personally I'd say that the FO is a TSO (there was no normal First Class available on these trains, plus looking at the window spacings) and the Mark 1 RF is either a Mark 1 RB, Mark 1 RUB or Mark 1 RKB (looking at the doors probably the RB or RUB), some form of Buffet area for the 2nd class passengers was needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi Mel I'm sure this question's been asked before (but I can't find it if it has). Does anyone know what typical formations of the ECML trains using the Met Camm Pullmans were? I'm interested in the period when they were painted in the reversed blue/grey livery. Sample locos would be welcome too. Thanks in advance. Mel I have a number of East Coast carriage working books of the period that you are interested in. I'm not sure if Robert Carroll has moved over to the new forum but I would recommend that you join his group BRCS as he regularly posts pdf scans of his extensive collection of carriage marshalling books. The information in the postings is also highly informative and to a consistently high standard. There are a lot of very helpful and informative people on here many of whom had first hand knowledge and experience of the coaches themselves. The 'join' link is below: BR Coaching Stock group Loco wise I would suspect that Deltics were the main motive power as these were premium trains i/c class 47s deputising. I shall take a look at my books and post later if that is OK? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 The 1969-1970 East Coast & GN Main Line Carriage Working book gives the following: 17.00 (SX) KX-Newcastle (1N25) Loco + TSO(Fri only), TSO, TSO, TSO, TSO, RB(Kitchen @ north end), 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end),1st Parlour (Fri excepted), 1st Parlour, 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), BG 17.30 (SX) KX-Harrogate & Bradford (1L34) "The Yorkshire Pullman" Loco + 2nd Parlour, 2nd Kitchen (Kitchen @ south end), 2nd Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), 1st Parlour, 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), BG / 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ south end), 1st Parlour, 2nd Parlour, 2nd Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), 2nd Parlour (Thu & Fri only), BG (added @ Leeds City) Front portion (6 vehicles) for Harrogate, rear portion for Bradford 17.30 (SO) KX-Harrogate & Bradford (1L34) "The Yorkshire Pullman" Loco + 2nd Parlour, 2nd Kitchen (Kitchen @ south end), 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end, BG / 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ south end), 2nd Parlour, 2nd Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), BG (Added @ Leeds City) Front portion (4 vehicles) for Harrogate, rear portion for Bradford 17.35 (SX) KX-Hull (1H15) "Hull Pullman" Loco + TSO, TSO, TSO, RMB, RU (Kitchen @ south end), 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), 1st Parlour, 1st Kitchen (Kitchen @ north end), BG The front TSO was altered to be a BSO and the rear BG was deleted (possibly from 5.1.70) Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm here but not very active at present. I have originals or copies of the ECML workings for 1970-1, 1971-2, 1973-4 and 1974-5 (as well as 1967-8, when the Firsts started appearing in grey/blue). All have been available for free download in pdf form on BRCoachingStock. Also see my article in Model Rail, April 2008. The formations moved about a bit over the years, so best thing is to try to pick a year. A brief chronology is that all the trains were all-Pullman, latterly with the firsts in grey/blue and the seconds still in umber/cream, until October 1968. From then, the Master Cutler/Sheffield Pullman were withdrawn and the Hull Pullman switched to ordinary second class. May 1969 saw the Tees-Tyne Pullman going the same way. May 1971 saw the Yorkshire Pullman lose its second class Pullmans. During 1971-2, the trains went air-braked and had Mark IIa seconds, replaced soon afterwards by Mark IId air-con stock. Tees-Tyne Pullman and Saturday Yorkshire Pullman withdrawn in 1976, Hull Pullman and Monday-Friday Yorkshire Pullman withdrawn May 1978. Incidentally, the carriage working books don't always reflect what happened - photos show the order of vehicles didn't always quite match the books. Motive power: Deltics usually on Tees-Tyne, others mostly 47s but Deltics appeared on the Yorkshire Pullman too (as did Peaks) and towards the end the up Hull Pullman was Deltic-hauled. There are photos on my Flickr site of the Pullmans in August 1968, including a 40 unusually on the up Yorkshire Pullman. Easiest way to locate them is to look by loco class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I came on to ask this very question as have some pullmans now, so thanks for asking/answering my question already. owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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