10800 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I know some on here have used micro video cameras on their layouts, either lineside or mounted in the trains themselves. I've had a look at the kind of equipment available, but often coming out more confused than when I went in! What do people use, or what would you recommend (this would be for 4mm)? Peripherals (monitors, wireless) as well as the cameras themselves? TIA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I have been having some fun with these. As you say, they are confusing and the prices vary hugely. On my layout I have low clearance over the lines and I wanted a micro camera for on-board footage. A supplier recommended a wireless CCTV camera that was about 25mm cube and cost about £30 including delivery. It transmitted a picture to a remote receiver plugged into my TV. I could not get it to work satisfactorily so obtained a refund. The problem was that, although it gave an excellent picture when the camera was still, the picture was awful as soon as the wagon on which it was mounted started to move. It did not matter whether the wagon was moved by a locomotive (ie all electrics turned on) or pushed by hand with all electrics switched off. Nor was there any difference if the antenna was extended or bent. My layout is in the loft and I even took my TV into the loft so that there were no walls between transmitter and receiver - it made no difference. The speed of movement made no difference either - the slightest, slow movement ruined the picture. On the other hand, moving the camera around by hand (ie not attached to a wagon on the rails) gave a good picture. I then bought a keyfob 808 camera using an SD card. The camera cost about £8 and the SD card about £11. This works very well but operation of the camera is wholly non-intuitive and you only know whether it has worked when you view the results on the computer, as the light telling you it is working goes out a few flashes after going into video mode; only trial and error tells you whether there were enough flashes or not! In fact I discovered that mine wasn't working because the SD card was full. In order for the camera to recognise the card as empty, you have to format it rather than delete files. I have just completed a 40 minute video using this camera and edited it in Pinnacle Studio Plus. Sometimes the video is a little jerky as it drops frames and fills in the gaps but the colour and sound are good and I am very pleased with the results. If you do not have such a restricted height over the rails, there are other choices of camera but I had no difficulty getting either of these cameras through my tunnel, under the bridges or past lineside scenery. I hope this helsp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseboy72 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Micro video, my speciality ! Key fob cameras: Brilliant and incredible value for money. Of course, you cannot watch the picture live... The problem with mini analogue cctv video links is picture stability due to 2 issues: 1. Transmitter frequency instablity 2. Single receiver without diversity (Multiple receivers and aerials) £30 CCTV cameras use usually 1.3GHz (Illegal in the UK) or 2.4GHZ (legal, but in a congested frequency band shared with microwave ovens, cordless phones and WiFi) "Pro" cameras use digital transmission and for highly mobile low power indoor links, diversity receivers which use 2 receivers and chooses between the best signal. Multipath distortion where the signal bounces around the room and arrives at the receiver at different times adds to the problem... ACME make the Flycam range for model aircraft. They make both wireless and recorder soltions, with rugged and stable links and a range of receivers. Another Solution: Try a mini IP (Network) camera and view the pictures on your PC. These come in fairly large housing, but can be taken out of the box and built into a coach or wagon. You will need to sort out the power supply, but it is easy to make a DCC to 6V DC supply or use a battery and on-board charger to give a constant supply from a conventional DC layout It takes a bit of effort to make work, but the results can be great. I really must put one of my helicopter cameras into a train... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Gordon H of this parish has uploaded this video of "Carstairs" to youtube: The camera car is an old coach underframe, since fitted with additional LED lights. I think it also helps to have metal wheels and axles, although i'm not sure why (or even if this is correct). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Interesting comments Noiseboy. I believe the CCTV camera I had was the 2.4GHZ variety, so legal but unsuccessful. Mini IP strikes me as a bit expensive so I will stick with the keyfob. Mine sits on a bogie well wagon which keeps the centre of gravity low and I can adjust the height according to the viewpoint I want to use. The first time I used it, I pushed the camera around in front of the loco (giving a driver's view except you see no loco at all). This time I put the camera just in front of the guards van looking slightly to the left so that the view was that of a passenger. It could of course be positioned anywhere along the train if set at that angle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I too have used a keyfob video camera successfully. Works very well, but you have to view the pictures on a computer to make sure they have recorded. Great value though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Thanks for the replies so far - I'm really looking for something that can provide live feed rather than record for future viewing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted April 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2011 I've got a miniature camera/transmitter unit built into the front of an autocoach that I can propel around the layout. We've used it at various shows and it gives reasonable picture. I found that it helped a lot to have a gentle springing on the vehicle to give it a smoother ride, combined with a LOT of extra weight and clean wheels. Any form of vibration really reduces the picture quality. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I fitted a transmitter type camera (from Ebay), to a brake wagon for a friend and it works fine, but the brake wagon it's in is an all metal body, with a large lead slug to ballast it, and full springing. The power is lithium batteries, ex phone packs, and the wheels are fully insulted, as they are plastic. The aerial is folded into a spiral under the roof, which is the only plastic part of the body structure. Metal tyres seem to cause interference as they roll, probably a capacitive/inductance effect, as no power is being picked up from the track. I suspect at the short wavelengths involved, the transmitting aerial is obviously feeding the track and wheels with radio frequency signal that may resonant, so metal wheels might interfere with the signal being picked up by the receiver. Also the metal body and lead slug act as a virtual earth, helping stabilise the signal. I did put a scope on the track to detect the signal and as the vehicle moved spikes and glitches do occur. However the processor in the receiver seems designed with a low frame rate and has correction software on the video feed , meant to suppress most of the glitches. Prior to fitting plastic wheels I did try bypass capacitors connected across the opposite tyres, 1000pf, which also worked, but was a nuisance to do, the plastic wheel was a simpler option. If the chassis itself is plastic, then the wheels, even metal, did not seem to interfere. It was run on a DC track with no problems, and should work on DCC without any troubles. Hope this helps and gives ideas of getting the transmitter type to work, Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted April 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2011 I use a live feed wireless camera to monitor the storage yard on my American layout: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/17776-gulf-atlanta-eastern/page__st__50 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted April 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2011 I have a mate who has managed to fit a live camera and transmitter into n gauge rolling stock and , I think, into a dummy Class 67. It works well. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwrman Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Try looking at this site www.spycameracctv.com ,also a good source for transformers. Nigel B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 For a DVC which uses micro SD cards, try http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110658008500&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT They work fine and are £1.45 each plus £4.00 postage,ridiculously cheap, and even slimmer than the key fob types. Sound recording is surprisingly good, if a bit tinny, Image quality OK, but it can help to add a close up lens, experiment with offcuts of cheapo Poundland plastic reading glasses of .5 diopetre to +3 diopetre, this enhances the close up sharpness, as at default the lens is set to infinity. The lens can be sawn up and a small piece taped to the end, or even glued permanently if you want to use it all the time on model layouts, whilst your not shooting weddings on it!!!!!! Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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