Basic Signalling and Interlocking

[david130653]

Firstly apologies if this had been covered elsewhere or should be in the DCC section and thanks in advance for all replies.

 

I am about to start building my first real attempt at a serious model, as I am 58 years old, it will be interesting to see how far I get and what sort of a job I make of it.

 

I have decided to start fairly simply and have a go at the famous "Minories" track plan. So it will consists, basically, of a loco stabling track, 3 platform roads and a goods headshunt all being fed from a double track main line. Control is DCC, track is Peco Code 75, and period is mid 50's - some locos have "Lion on a wheel" emblem, some "Lion in a Wheel". Location is Pennines LMS.

 

Question 1) In what is obviously a smallish station, at this period should I use semaphore signals, or could I get away with colour light signals?

 

The reason I ask is that whilst I am prepared to have a go at working colour light signals, my modelling skills could not handle working semaphore.

 

Question 2) What signals would be located at the ends of the loco bay, the platform roads and the goods headshunt and what signals would be located on the approach track of the double track section?

 

Question 3) If I can use Colour Lights, I was thinking of simply driving the signals from the point motors - Tortoise. However after thinking about this for a few minutes, I realised that if a train was approaching the station, there would be a green light on the approach signal and a green light showing in the opposite direction, from the starter signal of the platform the train will arrive into, switched on by the switch in the point motor. Is there an easy way of avoiding this? I can only think of two, manually controlling each signal from a switch panel, or a lot of interlocking code in a computer programme.

 

Recommendations for manufacturers for each type of signal would be much appreciated.

 

 

Thank you.

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

In reality I would say it would be fairly simple to signal with the biggest challenge being to achieve working semaphore signals. In terms of getting correct outline signals in the right places it is a fairly simple task derived from a few basic 'rules' which were relatively constant from the late 19th century. What those rules translate to in any situation is where some of the 'art of signalling' comes in plus in my view (although not on the layout you intend to use) you have to consider the scenic implications and avoid 'over signalling'.

 

For your layout all you need area number of Stop Signals, i.e signals which have a red arm like this one -

(which is a GWR version)

 

The stop signal approaching the station would be called the 'Home Signal' and it would require to indicate that the points are set towards a particular route as well as being 'cleared' as authority fro a train to proceed. Indication of the route set could be achieved by some sort of mechanical or electrical indicator - this is a GWR mechanical route indicator -

 

or by having a different arm for each route from the signal (this - not so good pic - shows the back of such a signal)

 

Thesignals we have seen so far are used to control what are known as 'running movements' - they are the movement of a train on a line categorised as a 'Running Line' (i.e it is not a siding) but arms of different sizes were used by some Companies and BR Regions for different classes of Running Line; don't worry about that for the layout you have in mind.

 

Shunting movements are controlled by shunting (or shunt) signals referred to by all sorts of nicknames varying from the obvious 'disc' or 'ground disc' to the more esoteric such as 'dummy', 'dolly' or 'dodds' (and no doubt a few more). This is an example of an LMS/LMR pattern disc but it also has a small electric indicator - most didn't!

 

There are also things called 'Subsidiary Signals and these are mounted below a Stop Signal to allow subsidiary movements such as attaching a loco to a train - that would usually beaa 'Calling On' signal. This is an example of the old GWR pattern of a specialised subsidiary called a 'Shunt Ahead Signal' and I've included it simply to show its relationship to the running arm (the picture also includes a real signal engineer who happened to get in my way).

 

Are we now a bit further forward on the basics?

[micknich2003]

You can always have a go at a mechanical locking frame. Attached pictures of one I made. Don't be put off, it is not as complex as it looks, just repation and pateince.

I would suggest semaphore signals for your intended layout. Best Wishes, Mick Nicholson.

[beast66606]

Firstly apologies if this had been covered elsewhere or should be in the DCC section and thanks in advance for all replies.

 

I am about to start building my first real attempt at a serious model, as I am 58 years old, it will be interesting to see how far I get and what sort of a job I make of it.

 

I'm 50 something and still able to use new technologies

 

I have decided to start fairly simply and have a go at the famous "Minories" track plan. So it will consists, basically, of a loco stabling track, 3 platform roads and a goods headshunt all being fed from a double track main line. Control is DCC, track is Peco Code 75, and period is mid 50's - some locos have "Lion on a wheel" emblem, some "Lion in a Wheel". Location is Pennines LMS.

 

Question 1) In what is obviously a smallish station, at this period should I use semaphore signals, or could I get away with colour light signals?

 

Huddersfield PSB was commissioned in the late 1950s, you could use this as the controlling box for your station, so you could use either.

 

Question 3) If I can use Colour Lights, I was thinking of simply driving the signals from the point motors - Tortoise. However after thinking about this for a few minutes, I realised that if a train was approaching the station, there would be a green light on the approach signal and a green light showing in the opposite direction, from the starter signal of the platform the train will arrive into, switched on by the switch in the point motor. Is there an easy way of avoiding this? I can only think of two, manually controlling each signal from a switch panel, or a lot of interlocking code in a computer programme.

 

Mick has suggested a lever frame, you could also achieve a similar result with switches, relays and tortoise motors although the "levers" aren't locked normal, they won't work unless the relevant points have been set correctly.

 

I've left Q2 as StationMaster is pointing you in the direction for semaphores.

 

hth

[The Stationmaster]

 

I'm 50 something and still able to use new technologies

 

I've left Q2 as StationMaster is pointing you in the direction for semaphores.

I've got a 'puter too Dave (but there the similarity ends I suspect, notwithstanding my introducing - back in the early 1990s - some very new ways of using networked PCs on BR).

 

Not so much 'pointing in the direction of semaphores' as hopefully giving an idea of some of the basics involved if the OP heads that way - colour lights and a few switches and relays would probably be a lot simpler to get working than semaphores but in some respects that depends on one's modelling skills. (Horrible pause for thought - I started on an NX panel, controlling 3 & 4 aspect signals through a relay interlocking, for my then layout 50 years ago next year And yes, it worked )

[Absolute Aspects]

I'm quickly learning more and more about signals on other regions (other than Southern), but could do with some help. Stationmaster and beast, do you think David could get away with searchlight signals or signals with rounded edges?

 

 

[Absolute Aspects]

ooooo, just found a photo of an old style gantry with 3 lights on the feathers compared to the current 5, ignore the N scale signal....

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

I'm quickly learning more and more about signals on other regions (other than Southern), but could do with some help. Stationmaster and beast, do you think David could get away with searchlight signals or signals with rounded edges?

Probably but i would doubt searchlight in that part of the world at that time.

[The Stationmaster]

ooooo, just found a photo of an old style gantry with 3 lights on the feathers compared to the current 5, ignore the N scale signal....

But then it's a Southern style bracket structure and with 3 light JIs that is also Southern.

[beast66606]

As StationMaster says, very Southern for the feather and search lights were North Eastern, the Huddersfield area had 4-asepct colour lights

[beast66606]

Not so much 'pointing in the direction of semaphores' as hopefully giving an idea of some of the basics involved if the OP heads that way

 

Badly worded by me, I meant in the sense you were assisting with semaphores if that was the chosen route, rather than prescribing them ! - sorry

[The Stationmaster]

 

Badly worded by me, I meant in the sense you were assisting with semaphores if that was the chosen route, rather than prescribing them ! - sorry

No problem - probably me reading it wrong too

[Absolute Aspects]

Dam, never mind then. Still learning, very mcuh a Southern boy....

[beast66606]

Dam, never mind then. Still learning, very mcuh a Southern boy....

 

If you are taking over from Roger you will need a lot more research if you don't want to disappoint potential customers, a few of us around here are happy to help

[Absolute Aspects]

 

If you are taking over from Roger you will need a lot more research if you don't want to disappoint potential customers, a few of us around here are happy to help

 

 

Thanks Beast, it's a bit dauting. But if I have willing people like you and photos of what people want, then I should be able to produce anything.

Sorry for hijacking this forum :-s