Please be gentle.....

[The Stationmaster]

Perhaps I should quit my daytime job.

Some changes:

Now you're really getting there (apart from taking out the wrong siding at the small station - we run on the left over here!). All you really need now is to sort the trap points once you've settled that this is your finalised layout although I'm a little puzzled as to how you shunt the coal yard siding - much better to connect it into the headshunt for the line to the docks I reckon.

[bbishop]

Sierd Jan

 

Richard = Rhisiart

 

I can't exactly translate landing, but port, harbour, ferry is porthladd. And the Welsh would translate Port of Richard

 

So how about Porthladd o Rhisiart. The only problem is whether the "o" causes Rhisiart to mutate, in which case it becomes Risiart. Sorry can't find my Welsh grammar to check.

 

Pronunciation - the "dd" is pronounced somewhere between a soft "th" and an "f", and the "rh" depends on where in Wales you are. As a North Walian, my mother would have pronounced it "hr".

 

If it helps for the branch terminus, village = pentref. Pronunciation "f" is "v".

 

Bill

[tender]

so if any Welsh speaker has a suggestion, l would welcome it!

 

Sierd Jan

Annwyl (Dear) Sierd Jan

 

Richards Landing - 'Porth Risiart' yn Y Gymraeg (in Welsh). Pronounced 'Porth Rishart'

 

Cofion (Regards)

 

Ray.

[cary hill]

'Porth Risiart' - that sounds good.

 

I wonder where on the Cambrian Coast it might be?

 

Perhaps somewhere South of Harlech, as your castle appears to be on a similar rocky outcrop, and I can imagine that it would have been closer to the waterfront before the railway reclaimed land to build the station/modern port, as Harlech Castle once was before the sand dunes etc cut it off from the sea.

[Sir Madog]

That´s going to be a heck of a layout - go for it!

 

The only issue I see, is that you will be having a hard time to reach the lower right part of the layout, unless your arms are 2 m long.

[Trains&armour]

Sierd Jan

 

Richard = Rhisiart

 

I can't exactly translate landing, but port, harbour, ferry is porthladd. And the Welsh would translate Port of Richard

 

So how about Porthladd o Rhisiart. The only problem is whether the "o" causes Rhisiart to mutate, in which case it becomes Risiart. Sorry can't find my Welsh grammar to check.

 

Pronunciation - the "dd" is pronounced somewhere between a soft "th" and an "f", and the "rh" depends on where in Wales you are. As a North Walian, my mother would have pronounced it "hr".

 

If it helps for the branch terminus, village = pentref. Pronunciation "f" is "v".

 

Bill

Annwyl (Dear) Sierd Jan

 

Richards Landing - 'Porth Risiart' yn Y Gymraeg (in Welsh). Pronounced 'Porth Rishart'

 

Cofion (Regards)

 

Ray.

 

Thanks guys, Porth Risiart it now is. And where it is, well you can find it on any good road map....

 

[Trains&armour]

Reality and fantasy:

 

 

The coast on this stretch between Aberystwyth and Aberaeron is mostly cliffs, and a river flowing into the sea here could have eroded these cliffs, forming a steep sided estuary, as has happened on a much larger scale near Aberdovey, with the river Dovey. In fact, Porth Risiart has much in common with Dovey junction.

As I am an archeologist, I can't resist making up some more history : (I also blame cary hill!)

The goods yard and harbour of Porth Risiart are are now on reclaimed land in this estuary, which would have been a marshy tidal flat in the Middle ages. A small landing place would have been situated just under the spur of the hill now leading to the station. In the castles heyday there would have been a path on this spur, leading to a small jetty, possibly protected by a wall and small gate, as at Harlech. After the Middle ages it silted up, and was partly filled with a landslide from the hill. A modest village on the higher grounds with a small fishing harbour near the modern roadbridge was all that remained, until the coming of the railway connecting Aberystwyth to Aberaeron, and later the branchline.

 

Porth Risiart could be located on a couple of other spots on the Cambrian Coast line, but I kind of like the idea of an extention beyond Aberystwyth

 

Well, enough fun for now, back to some serious work

 

 

 

Now you're really getting there (apart from taking out the wrong siding at the small station - we run on the left over here!). All you really need now is to sort the trap points once you've settled that this is your finalised layout although I'm a little puzzled as to how you shunt the coal yard siding - much better to connect it into the headshunt for the line to the docks I reckon.

 

The coal siding is now connected to the goods loop by way of a crossover, a feature I've seem on some other prototype stations. Connecting to the headshunt is also a possibility, but doesn't look quite right to me. The small station siding has been reinstated (oops, misunderstanding), and the cattle dock has been moved to that side. The misunderstanding originated from the fact that most of the small station is based on a prototype, Stogumber station:

Sketch from S. Williams, Great Western branch line Modelling, Part One. p.47

 

I just added the siding on the station side, and moving the cattle dock there makes it look more useful. (i think)

 

Comments, as ever, more than welcome!

 

Sierd Jan

[The Stationmaster]

Ah, the difference being that at Stogumber - on the sketch as you have shown it above - what appears to be a loop in fact isn't a running loop but a double ended siding, with trap points at both ends. No problem copying that but you ideally then need to make sure that the line through the platform is the 'obvious straight line' (or as near to that effect as you can get.

[Trains&armour]

Ah, the difference being that at Stogumber - on the sketch as you have shown it above - what appears to be a loop in fact isn't a running loop but a double ended siding, with trap points at both ends. No problem copying that but you ideally then need to make sure that the line through the platform is the 'obvious straight line' (or as near to that effect as you can get.

Thanks Mike, I see what you mean. I'll try to tidy up the track plan of the small station (provisionally called Blaenplwyf)

 

Sierd Jan,

Trains Armour

[cary hill]

 

Porth Risiart could be located on a couple of other spots on the Cambrian Coast line, but I kind of like the idea of an extention beyond Aberystwyth

 

Comments, as ever, more than welcome!

 

Sierd Jan,

 

I thought all the "real" estuaries looked to be already covered by the railway, so a Southern extension bridging a "new" estuary sounds like a good plan to me.

 

Not wishing in any way to cause you any more "work" but are you aware that Aberaeron was served by the Great Western Railway from 1911 to 1951(passengers)/1965(goods only) by the Lampeter, Aberaeron and New Quay Railway? Lampeter is a few miles inland from Aberaeron. The New Quay branch, which was never built, would have branched off the Aberaeron branch, if that makes sense, and have apparently reached New Quay by running parallel to the old road between Aberaeron and New Quay. This old road has since fallen into the sea due to coastal (cliff) erosion (perhaps the railway might have too?) so it probably helps to support your need for erosion along that part of the coast .

 

I don't think the above really matters as you are exploiting the traffic potential of a coastal railway route.

[Graham R]

Hi Sierd Jan,

 

I think the coal merchant's siding looks much better as you've drawn it now. Great solution!

 

I wonder if the loco yard doesn't still look a bit busy. Had you thought of using a single-track, through shed? (twice the length, half the width of the current one, so same capacity and accessibility). If you placed it against the rocky spur from the castle with the turntable at its far end, and moved the raised track for the coaling bench to the side next the harbour headshunt, there might still be space for the loco approach and release/coaling roads in between. Not sure where the stabling siding would fit.

 

I have no idea whether the Cambrian did this kind of thing (through sheds) so perhaps more knowledgeable members could comment before you waste a lot of time with the planning software. (You seem to be pretty adept at it though!)

 

regards

Graham

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Sierd Jan,

 

I think the coal merchant's siding looks much better as you've drawn it now. Great solution!

 

I wonder if the loco yard doesn't still look a bit busy. Had you thought of using a single-track, through shed? (twice the length, half the width of the current one, so same capacity and accessibility). If you placed it against the rocky spur from the castle with the turntable at its far end, and moved the raised track for the coaling bench to the side next the harbour headshunt, there might still be space for the loco approach and release/coaling roads in between. Not sure where the stabling siding would fit.

 

I have no idea whether the Cambrian did this kind of thing (through sheds) so perhaps more knowledgeable members could comment before you waste a lot of time with the planning software. (You seem to be pretty adept at it though!)

 

regards

Graham

The shed layout as it stands isn't too different from Moat Lane (Cambrian).

[Trains&armour]

Hi Sierd Jan,

 

I think the coal merchant's siding looks much better as you've drawn it now. Great solution!

 

I wonder if the loco yard doesn't still look a bit busy. Had you thought of using a single-track, through shed? (twice the length, half the width of the current one, so same capacity and accessibility). If you placed it against the rocky spur from the castle with the turntable at its far end, and moved the raised track for the coaling bench to the side next the harbour headshunt, there might still be space for the loco approach and release/coaling roads in between. Not sure where the stabling siding would fit.

 

I have no idea whether the Cambrian did this kind of thing (through sheds) so perhaps more knowledgeable members could comment before you waste a lot of time with the planning software. (You seem to be pretty adept at it though!)

 

regards

Graham

 

Well, I do think the loco yard is a bit over the top, but i really like the idea of an loco yard. And as Mike, the station master, pointed out, it does resemble a Cambrian prototype. So, for now, i will leave it as it is. Did some more tinkering with the plan, and this is the final layout:

 

 

Not set it stone, especially as i wont be building the room were the layout is supposed to go before next summer. And it wiil probably be the spring-summer after that before i can start on the layout itself. But I will hopefully have time and space to start with the section containing the small station, giving me a good excuse to buy stuff and hone my modelling skills!

 

 

I thought all the "real" estuaries looked to be already covered by the railway, so a Southern extension bridging a "new" estuary sounds like a good plan to me.

 

Not wishing in any way to cause you any more "work" but are you aware that Aberaeron was served by the Great Western Railway from 1911 to 1951(passengers)/1965(goods only) by the Lampeter, Aberaeron and New Quay Railway? Lampeter is a few miles inland from Aberaeron. The New Quay branch, which was never built, would have branched off the Aberaeron branch, if that makes sense, and have apparently reached New Quay by running parallel to the old road between Aberaeron and New Quay. This old road has since fallen into the sea due to coastal (cliff) erosion (perhaps the railway might have too?) so it probably helps to support your need for erosion along that part of the coast .

 

I don't think the above really matters as you are exploiting the traffic potential of a coastal railway route.

 

I made up the road map with Porth Risiart during my lunch break, just for the fun of it, so my research was substandard.

I only used a current roadmap and a map of the Cambrian railways, that of course didn't show any lines beyond Aberystwyth. So i completely forgot about the line to Aberaeron and more importantly, the line from Lampeter to Aberystwyth. This passed quite close to my proposed site for Porth Risiart, making another line with a branchline here seem somewhat overdone. Not that's it really important, but now i've done it, it might as well do it right. The maps in the earlier posts have been replaced to reflect the new reality

 

I've moved Porth Risiart southward, to a few miles above Aberaeron. One branch now connects to Aberystwyth, following the coast, and the other branch runs inland to connect to the Lampeter-Aberystwyth line at Strata Florida Junction ( http://en.wikipedia....berystwyth_Line ), as an extention to the Manchester and Milford railway scheme.

In this parrallel world, this and the extention was constructed. The idea was that Porth Risiart also would attract some of the traffic looking for a alternative port. In anticipation of this, a loco shed to stable tank locos running along the new line was built. Sadly, almost before the line was finished, the increasing bulk of victorian steamers made that Porth Risiart was too narrow to handle these vessels. It did recieve some economic impulses from the traffic along both lines, but it never became the boom town the investors had hoped for. (but the Cambrian coast express does now runs beyond Aberystwyth to Aberaeron!)

 

Well, that's it for now, and i want to thank everybody that has shown interest in my layout and all the constructive comment that I've recieved. It has been really helpful. More to follow, but it might take a while

 

Sierd Jan

[Trains&armour]

Back to square one!. Well, not all the way. But the planned helixes have to go. I did some extensive testing with the British steam engines I own, and it didn,t go all that well. Bottom line is dat with second radius curves on the helix (which translates in a 1:40 incline with 7,5 cm clearance between each full circle) most engines will not pull more than four coaches without some slipping. A train with five coaches, the number I was aiming for, will get to the top, but with serious slipping. Going from second radius to third results in an incline down to almost 1:50, which makes the clim manageble for all tested engines with five coaches, but still with occasional slipping. Problem is, there is no room for two third radius helixes! About 2.5 radius is the best à can do, and I’m afraid that will result in serious wear and tear of my engines, especially as I was planning a 30 cm height difference. My Marklin stock barely noticed these inclines, but the enigines are far heavier and a lot of them still have traction tires. But I don’t want Marklin trains anymore! (you cannot, however hard you try, hide that third rail, and the stock is not very British.....)

So, I came up with this plan:

 

 

Grey is the bottom reverse loop, with acess to four through storage sidings and one meant for railcars and autotrains (white) The outside siding is on my desk and is meant for testing of trains and changing engines and stock. When I don,t need it, it can be removed so I will have more deskspace (the desk itself can be pushed under the layout) The orange and yellow tracks are the inclines, with a removable section across the door (green) and a possibility to switch from one track to the other, so trains can also go round and round...... The inclines will be permantly fixed to the walls, and the storage sidings will also be permanent. The square sections on the other side of the room will all be removable, so the bedroom can be used as a guest room (not that often I hope...) (But on the positive side i could take the country station to shows )

 

But with this plan the maximum height difference (with 1:50 inclines) is 15 cm, not leaving a lot of room to reach the storage siding, and making cleaning more of a chore.

 

The overall layout plan has not changed much, but some tweaking was needed to hide all the inclines from view. This is the new plan:

 

 

And this is what the room should look like: (in ten years time )

 

 

And for completeness the country station when removed:

 

 

All sections will be of open topped construction, making in easier to incorporate all the height differences in the landscape itself (I also have been reading the discussion “Thoughts on gradients†with interest as Im a great fan of a graded layout to make the landscape more realistic)

 

Comments welcome !

 

Sierd Jan

 

PS. I have been doing some modelling, namely the building and detailing of an Airfix Matador, which is supposed to be part of a convoy driving past the country station. If anybody is interested, i’ll post photo’s

[Kelly]

Looks like an interesting layout. That period is always fascinating as lots of military preparations and movements. Look forward to seeing your progress.

[Kris]

I wonder if there would be any benefit in putting a couple of points on the outer 2 grey sidings to make some dead end sidings here to make more storage.

[simon47603]

Hi Sierd Jan

 

Most of the D-Day excercises in Wales, I believe were held on South Wales beaches, Margam sands, near Port Talbot steelworks being just one example. However, I am sure that either a Commando Training Base or a Commando Barracks was built near Barmouth on the river Mawwdach. So maybe having a couple of Landing craft and some Commandoes on the beach or by the station would'nt be out of place.

 

Just going back to Margam Sands, During the autumn Storms last year. The Hull of a Meteor Tank was uncovered by the sea. By the looks of it the tank had sunk in the mud, and could not be pulled out, so the Army removed the Turret and the Engine and left the hull in place.

 

Best wishes

Simon

[Trains&armour]

The bottom half of the layout looks too cramped and "made" to me, too much compromise I'd say... But the rural station looks quite good!

 

 

Thanks! I spend most of my time on designing the country station, as this is the part of the layout I will build first. And the bottom half, well, so far I've managed to fit everything in, and I do think it's acceptable as it is. That said, I still have some doubts.... But there is still time to experiment!

 

1) build a scale model to see if the 2D drawing meets the 3D idea in your head and

2) get some (cheap ) wallpaper on a roll and mark it out 1:1

Yes , i will do something along those lines.

[Trains&armour]

I wonder if there would be any benefit in putting a couple of points on the outer 2 grey sidings to make some dead end sidings here to make more storage.

 

I,ve been thinking about that, and there is indeed enough room for some extra dead sidings. Not really necessarry at this moment, but knowing myself, there will be a moment in the forseeable future when I will need more storage room. ButI was thinking of making a number of large casettes, possibly with pespex sides, which will be interchangable with the removable siding on my desk. Storage will be on racks somewhere on one of the walls. Then I can change out trains when I'm fed up with one or more of the trains running on the layout at that moment.

 

Sierd Jan

[Trains&armour]

Hi Sierd Jan

 

Most of the D-Day excercises in Wales, I believe were held on South Wales beaches, Margam sands, near Port Talbot steelworks being just one example. However, I am sure that either a Commando Training Base or a Commando Barracks was built near Barmouth on the river Mawwdach. So maybe having a couple of Landing craft and some Commandoes on the beach or by the station would'nt be out of place.

 

Just going back to Margam Sands, During the autumn Storms last year. The Hull of a Meteor Tank was uncovered by the sea. By the looks of it the tank had sunk in the mud, and could not be pulled out, so the Army removed the Turret and the Engine and left the hull in place.

 

Best wishes

Simon

 

Hi Simon

 

Indeed there were several training camps near the Mawwdach estuary. In fact, it was a program on the BBC a while ago, Railway walks, Dolgellau to Barmouth, which mentioned these camps and gave me the idea of designing this fictiuos estuary to combine both my modelling hobbies. Information about WO II military activity in the area is hard to come by, but there was at least one Royal marine training camp on the coast of the estaury itself, called camp Iceland, which was used for D Day training. And thanks for mentioning the stuck meteor tank, it will translate into a nice diorama!

 

regards,

Sierd Jan

[Trains&armour]

Sorry, no modelling as yet, but I did redesign part of my layout. And placed to new design in the right forum this time:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62254-porth-rhisiart/&do=findComment&comment=799247

 

Please tell me where I have gone wrong this time!

 

Sierd Jan