Simon Moore Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 My Austwick layout is my first proper layout as such & has been built using code 75 electrofrog pointwork & DCC. After getting all the trackwork laid & wired the points are working fine but the double slip has been a little problematic. When i was up at the modelshop buying my pointwork i asked how to wire the doubleslip & they said just solder the bus wires to the outer tracks of the slip. I've isolated the slip completely from the rest of the track as i was told & it's been a pain ever since with locos staling on one frog of the slip & since a good proportion of my locos are 0-6-0's & 2-6-0's it's making it worst because they stall unless there doing a scale 100mph through the slip. I've wired the slip up using seep Pm1's & followed this diagram here http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-2.htm#Live%20frog%20(Electrofrog)%20points Since i wired up the switches on the PM1's I keep having a short circuit on the problematic frog & i am wondering if it is the PM1 not throwing the poles with it's built in switch or i've not wired the thing properly. I take it from the diagram on Brian's website the track power can be run off the bus to the switches so it throws the pole. The other thing is the frog which is dodgy & short circuiting the motor has been turned the other way round because i cocked up the holes for the motor & i wondered if this was affecting it too. Wiring is not my strong point & i could do with someone in the know to help me out. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 OK, each side of a double slip must be totally isolated from the other side and the frog should totally isolated from both sides. I've marked up half a slip which should help. The frogs will need isolating fishplates on all four ends. The frog polarity is set by the point motors that control the switch blades, so you should use a meter to confirm you have the correct polarity and not have the connections crossed over. I hope this pic helps. As a starting point I would use a meter to check isolation of each side and the frog before adding any wires at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hi Your problem with the shorts can be caused by several things. 1) The actual PM1 isnt moving away from one side and is still making contact with that side while the point blade above is now moved over and is touching the opposite stock rail (Outer fixed rails). Repositioning the PM1 to a more central position should overcome this. 2) One or both of the PM1 are wired up in the opposite way to the lay of the point. (A ) This can be proved by initially removing the two 'F' terminal wires on both PM1 motors, ensure these wires cant touch anything and then trying the point over and back several times with the DCC power still On. If all is OK (B ) Connect one ends frog wire only and retest over and back several times If still OK (C ) Reconnect the final F wire and retry if the fault now occurs its that ends motor thats wrong - swap around the wires on D & E terminals. If the fault occurred when test (B ) was carried out when the first motor was tested, then that motor is wired wrong. Swap its D & E wires around. Retest and assuming ok then move onto the other motor and proceed as (C ) above 3) If you have installed 8 IRJs for the point, then the fixed wires from the two outer stock rails connecting directly to the appropriate DCC Bus/rail power feed may be around the wrong way on the bus. But do ensure they are correct polarity wise. If wrong a short would then occur when a locos metal wheel bridges one of the IRJs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsOatcake Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I have two code 75 double slips all working fine with the Seep PM1. I had a few issues when setting them up. I then realised that I had wired the wrong frog to the wrong motor. The motor on the left end switched the right frog and vice versa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Brian thank you for the list of thing's that are the problem possibility's. I have a feeling it is number 1 i did have a look at the switch on the motor & i did my best to try to centralise the motor so it threw evenly & in the right direction. I think i have drilled as many holes as i can now under the baseboard & with this in mind i have ordered a couple of peco motors with switch's so hopefully i can cure the problem once & for all. I will see if i can solve the problem firstly with the PM1's because there a good motor & i am impressed with how well they have worked so far. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2012 Simon. The seep switch in my opinion is much too critical to position easily. I have quite a few Seeps operating points but I have never used the built in switch. I use a separate microswitch mounted adjacent and operated by the pin extending underneath the solenoid. This way it is much easier to adjust the switching position, the actual position of the Seep is less critical. If you have a double junction you need two switches anyway and adding a second micro is a doddle. Decent microswitches can be purchased for as little as 30p in bulk. (Try Rapid electronics or others) See picture: Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hi Keith Are the Seeps shown above the PM4 latching type? As I have often considered using conventional micro switches but felt that the 'push' resistance of the microswitches lever may be too great for the normal PM1 to hold over?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsOatcake Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I don't screw my Seeps to the underside of the board. I use small blobs of hot glue, which gives you enough time to get set up perfectly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hi Keith Are the Seeps shown above the PM4 latching type? As I have often considered using conventional micro switches but felt that the 'push' resistance of the microswitches lever may be too great for the normal PM1 to hold over?? No just the basic type. There is more than enough spring force in a normal Peco point to keep them operated. I don't screw my Seeps to the underside of the board. I use small blobs of hot glue, which gives you enough time to get set up perfectly. Don't need to set them up "perfectly" using this method, as long as the throw is in line with the tie bar! I use round head screws with the mounting holes enlarged a little which give the necessary adjustment. (As you can see Seeps are too long to mount correctly on a double junction so have to be re-drilled.) Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 No just the basic type. There is more than enough spring force in a normal Peco point to keep them operated. <Snip> Keith Thanks Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thanks Keith The friction* of the Seep probably helps as well. Keith EDIT: N.B. all my Seeps have the switch with it's associated spring which makes them a little more positive* and less likely to bounce. I found there was no difference in price when bought in bulk 6 or 10 at a time. I tried one with a latch but ended up removing the latch spring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't screw my Seeps to the underside of the board. I use small blobs of hot glue, which gives you enough time to get set up perfectly. Very good idea that i had toyed with the idea myself but was put off by the thought of removal. What is it like to remove then once they have been fitted with hot glue??? Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsOatcake Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Nothing a very sharp one inch chisel applied gently doesn't sort out. I was surprised how easily they come away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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