Relco Wiring Help

[JohnH]

Evening All,

 

I've just dug out an old original Relco unit and I want to incorporate it into my DC only shunting layout. Has anyone any wiring diagrams/instructions to help me to connect it correctly?

 

I'm hoping to use the unit in conjunction with an ancient H&M Duette.

 

Many thanks for any help,

[Kenton]

Personally, I would dig a bigger hole and loose it again.

 

I think Brian Lambert's site has a wiring diagram - if not I have one somewhere - but IIRC there were different models ... as they tried to improve upon a bad thing.

[DIW]

John,

 

Since Kenton's reply is probably a little less useful than you expected, I thought that I would offer this link to the topic on the old RMweb:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51199&p=780099&hilit=relco#p780099

 

Whether or not the Relco is of use depends entirely on your own circumstances, and I wish that detractors (in general, not necessarily of Relco) would bear that in mind when knocking products in the help section of the forum!

 

Kenton is perfectly correct in his statement that there are different versions of the Relco unit:

 

The earliest 4-terminal version could take its power from the track power or from a separate fixed outlet of the controller - 12 V to 16 V, ac or dc.

 

The next 4-terminal version replaced an internal bridge rectifier with a single diode which thus required the use only of a separate fixed ac outlet to provide power to the device. You could use a fixed dc outlet if you are able to determine if it has been wired the right way round with respect to the internal diode.

 

The latest version of which I am aware is the 6-terminal version - this version has been designed such that instead of interrupting the track wiring on only one side of the circuit, both sides of the track circuit are taken through the Relco.

 

To give you further help (if the above link deos not answer your question), you will have to disclose the version of Relco you own - after that either hope that I find the thread, or PM me.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Kenton]

Since Kenton's reply is probably a little less useful than you expected

Yes, sorry about that, Brian's site didn't have anything on it with regard to Relcos, even though I though it did.

It is a good resource to mention again anyway.

 

I have just had a quick look for the instructions - definitely somewhere as I stumble across them only a week or so ago.

 

But I'm sure if it is the latest version Gaugemaster would oblige.

 

Whether or not the Relco is of use depends entirely on your own circumstances, and I wish that detractors (in general, not necessarily of Relco) would bear that in mind when knocking products in the help section of the forum!

I'll not apologise for that though. If I believe a product is not worth having - I am happy to state that fact and the rationale behind it. I'm also quite happy praising a product where it is due.

 

Also while you are following DIW's selective link into the Relco debate you may also wish to read some of the other discussions that have taken place. At leat then you will have a more balanced opinion of the product than just mine

[JohnH]

Thanks for the link and your comments Dave - I'm sorry I'd not spotted your reply earlier, it's all a bit Christmas bonkers over here!

 

I had managed to find a scan of the wiring for the 4 terminal version (which I have) on another forum.

 

For reference here it is -

 

 

I have also found a 6 terminal version and will probably have a play with that as well.

 

Kenton - were they really that bad?

 

Many thanks for all the help.

 

Cheers,

[Kenton]

Kenton - were they really that bad?

My lips are sealed and would rather not repeat myself again - just search and read the topics on RMWeb3 for my reasons.

Others seem to swear by them and probably also scrub their rails with Peco track rubbers or snadpaper to clean them, hammer nails through track to hold it down and probably many other things I think of as abhominations.

 

Which doesn't make them gospel - just a point of view and a list of experiences.

Take it or leave it - just have an open mind and ask yourself why you are doing something.

[john new]

Thinking of knocking up a fairly simple oval portable 00 test track so I can just run a few of my stored trains round with it resting on the patio table on any decent days we get over the summer. In the track collection is my old RELCO (4 terminal type) but I've not used it for a long time so two questions:-

 

1) Do they also clean/ionise out any crud within the locomotive? My OO stock has not been run for quite a while.

2) Where is a good place to order a replacement stock of suppressors from to go across the DC terminals on the controller if I can't easily get to the biscuit tin stored in the garage that has my stock of spare suppressors? I did have some or my previous H-Dublo layout, which should still be in the bits tin. (Squires or Gaugemaster perhaps?)

 

I have noted Kenton's comments above but the RELCO seemed to do the job on my previous layouts and as far as I know I have no locos with coreless motors.

Edited April 5, 2018 by john new

[NIK]

Thinking of knocking up a fairly simple oval portable 00 test track so I can just run a few of my stored trains round with it resting on the patio table on any decent days we get over the summer. In the track collection is my old RELCO (4 terminal type) but I've not used it for a long time so two questions:-

 

1) Do they also clean/ionise out any crud within the locomotive? My OO stock has not been run for quite a while.

2) Where is a good place to order a replacement stock of suppressors from to go across the DC terminals on the controller if I can't easily get to the biscuit tin stored in the garage that has my stock of spare suppressors? I did have some or my previous H-Dublo layout, which should till be in the bits tin. (Squires or Gaugemaster perhaps?)

 

I have noted Kenton's comments above but the RELCO seemed to do the job on my previous layouts and as far as I know I have no locos with coreless motors.

 

Hi,

 

I found that if I started an exhibition with clean wheels and freshly cleaned track then most locos would keep going for 8 hours or so.

 

The track (OO) would need cleaning the next day and possibly some of the loco wheels.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Andy Hayter]

I have to agree with Nick.

 

When I was running my French exhibition layout Les Dents, I was scrupulous in keeping track and wheels clean.  In addition I did use a Relco (first generation).

 

Then I bought a Jouef TGV set and put it on the track (note not coreless motored).  It stuttered and would not run well and I was about to take it back when I noticed that the lights (at that time a novelty) were flashing on and off with the stutters in the running.  I disconnected the Relco and it ran perfectly - as indeed did the rest of the layout for that day and ever after with a good cleaning regime.

 

If anyone wants one  two I think I can dig them out from the (s)crap box.

[doilum]

I remember buying one. The bees knees. Then I got my first ECM Compspeed,which are still my favourite controller.

Perhaps every one under the age of forty should have a go with an old triang jinty, on a triang controller over deadfrog points.........

Then see how far we have come!!

We used relcos and the like in clubnight competitions to see whose loco could take the longest to cover two yards without stalling. I doubt if anyone has the patience to try this with current RTR and DCC.

[Butler Henderson]

Clean the locos, and track and all rolling stock wheels, properly - many people report wheel pitting arising from use of a Relco presumably due to a loco being very dirty on its electrical circuit. When I used them I simply used them as a fault indication and if the light lit noting where on the track the loco was for further inspection. Later made Relcos were only to be wired using the Diagram D Circuit B shown in post 5 above. One refinement I did was to use a DPDT switch to switch the Relco off and bypass it rather than the two switches the circuit and its accompanying text implies.

[john new]

Clean the locos, and track and all rolling stock wheels, properly - many people report wheel pitting arising from use of a Relco presumably due to a loco being very dirty on its electrical circuit. When I used them I simply used them as a fault indication and if the light lit noting where on the track the loco was for further inspection. Later made Relcos were only to be wired using the Diagram D Circuit B shown in post 5 above. One refinement I did was to use a DPDT switch to switch the Relco off and bypass it rather than the two switches the circuit and its accompanying text implies.

On the other hand the old tri-ang Jinty with its supposedly crude (but reliable) XO4 still runs; it is the more recent stuff from Mainline et al that has all the faults.

 

Brass gears over plastic every time.

Edited April 5, 2018 by john new

[DCB]

Thanks for the link and your comments Dave - I'm sorry I'd not spotted your reply earlier, it's all a bit Christmas bonkers over here!

 

I had managed to find a scan of the wiring for the 4 terminal version (which I have) on another forum.

 

For reference here it is -

 

 

I have also found a 6 terminal version and will probably have a play with that as well.

 

Kenton - were they really that bad?

 

Many thanks for all the help.

 

Cheers,

They changed something on Relcos and the diagram A won't work on the later ones.   They work well with variable voltage control units, not sure if they have any purpose on the 20 volt wall wart resistance controllers.  We use Relcos old and newer and don't spend much time cleaning track,[Edit]  I literally cannot remember when the last time we had a general clean was, one bit by the door has to be cleaned regularly every couple of months or so, say 20 hours running time, as does a couple of point frogs [End] but then again most of our traction tyre equipped locos have been pensioned off and most of the coaches have metal wheels.   Haven't noticed any smoke pouring out of the Hattons 14XX yet so either it doesn't have a coreless motor, I'm lucky, or the tales of coreless motors and Relcos are a bit like the ones that got away of angling fame.

Many thanks to JohnH for the diagram, I too found Relco in a box but the wiring  diagram is missing. Now I think I'll rig it up to the outside branch as the 94XX stuttered a bit in the snow the other week, see pic. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[john new]

Thanks for the feedback especially the DPDT suggestion for temporary switching in.

[chaz]

I recommend you clean the track and all the wheel treads thoroughly with petrol (lighter fuel) or IPA and then treat the rail-tops to a trace of graphite. If you can see it you have put too much on. I use a 2B grade artists' graphite block. Works like a dream. Just drag it along the rails once - don't worry if you can't reach every rail - the wheels will carry it around. Dock Green does approx' eight/ten shows between the need for rail cleaning.  

 

Use the graphite and you won't need the Relco.

 

Chaz

[DCB]

A couple of things occur to me. 1) that 1/2 amp fuse, how many people bother and how many Relcos have failed as a result,  2) the max voltage on dia A, Duettes give 20 + volts off load.  

The reduction in arcing between wheels and track is very noticeable with the Relco in action on our H&M Variable transformer in A position compared to OnTrack electronic controller in B either of which can operate up or down main lines, that arcing is what causes a lot of the dirt on the track.   Without the Relco the old pannier leaves a fiery trail like a Southern Emu, with the Relco it is minimal and that matters when running in the dark with the coach lights on.

Cleaning the track thoroughly and cleaning all the wheel treads with lighter fluid is OK for a 6X4 but with 80 wheels per goods and 50 + per passenger at 10 sec per wheel we would be looking at over 20 hours work, even 5 sec per wheel its 10 hours work and on that basis a Relco has to be worth a try.

Edited April 6, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Owen Edis]

Anyone able to describe how to tell if Relco units (out of sight behind control panel) are working as they should? Wet fingers across rails not feeling anything. Do they become ineffective over time?

[Suzie]

You can put a neon indicator across the output terminals and mount it remotely so you can see if it is working.

 

They usually either work or don't work. The most likely cause of a problem is something causing a load across the track, perhaps some damp or similar.

[kevinlms]

7 hours ago, Suzie said:

You can put a neon indicator across the output terminals and mount it remotely so you can see if it is working.

 

They usually either work or don't work. The most likely cause of a problem is something causing a load across the track, perhaps some damp or similar.

It's a long time ago, but I think the transistor failed on mine. I replaced it and it worked again.