Danemouth Mk2

[Danemouth]

My first attempt at a layout http://www.rmweb.co....o/page__st__125 was closed by Dr Beeching because:

• The was insufficient space for scenic development at the back, and
  
• A rather dead space at the front between the turntable and sidings that was going to be difficult to fill.
  

So I've decided to start again. Danemouth was originally three 4' boards with a 4' 3" sector plate at a right angle on the left. This arrangement lead to an unforeseen problem. A second radius 90 degree curve from the sector plate took 2' 4" off the left hand board and the track entered the scenic area 6" from the back. Not a happy situation.

 

The left hand board will be scrapped and the sector plate connected directly to the middle board. This gives a scenic area of 8' by 2' and a total layout length of 12' 3".

 

Basically I would like:

• A seaside town, busy with passenger traffic in summer on Saturdays but less busy in the winter except when Danemouth Rovers play at home!
  
• Parcels traffic but forget coal (see later)
  
• Loco facilities off stage (loved the turntable on Danemouth Mk1 but it took too much space).
  

I've always liked Minories but didn't really want to create yet another copy. Recently I came across the trackplan for Porthcawl, which I remember travelling on as a boy - a single track branch ending in a three platform station http://www.rmweb.co....cawl-trackplan/

 

The Scenario

• A BR(W) South coast terminus built by the GWR. It was built comparatively late hence the cramped station.
  
• Danemouth is a short branch off the GW mainline - about 5 miles. So coaches are detached at the junction to come down the branch
  
• Local traffic is a mixture of B sets and 14xx autocoach sets.
  
• Operate as two periods 1955-58 (blood & custard coaches & early emblem) and 1960-62 (Green diesels)
  
• Steam locos will be 14xx, Panniers, Prairies, baby Collet, Grange and a Hall - nothing bigger
  
• Goods facilities other than parcel traffic e.g. coal is off stage
  
• Similarly locos go off stage to be turned.
  

The Plan

 

• There is no release roads in the main platform - think Swansea High St - two reasons - for operational interest and train length - 3 coaches + loco
  
• I've used two double slips - perhaps not prototypical but space and board joints make them the best option. (The 2 blue lines are the board joins).
  

So your comments will be much appreciated!

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Just my view Dave, but everthing seems too straight and parallel to me. I'd be inclined to have the station on a slight curve.

 

You say this is single track, so does the bottom exit line onto the traverser lead to off-stage carriage sidings and loco shed?

[Danemouth]

Just my view Dave, but everthing seems too straight and parallel to me. I'd be inclined to have the station on a slight curve.

 

You say this is single track, so does the bottom exit line onto the traverser lead to off-stage carriage sidings and loco shed?

 

Peter,

 

Many thanks for your comments.

 

The bottom track was a headshunt but a line off to the loco facilities seems a nice idea - will think it through from an operational viewpoint.

 

Yes, I agree it's straight which Porthcawl was according to the pictures I've seen. Given that I've got a width of 2' I don't think I have too much room to incorporate curved platforms. Still something else to ponder!

 

Again many thanks for the suggestions,

 

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

Judging from pics the two main platforms at Porthcawl were straight while the outside platform had a slight curve in it as it gained width. Overall a nice straightforward track layout but to justify the double slip off the scissors that area ideally needs to be made to look 'hemmed in' by lineside buildings - otherwise it would have been built using a plain turnout (much cheaper). My only questions are will it contain enough operational interest with basically little more than a procession of passenger trains arriving and departing and does the sector table have enough roads in view of teh fact that you have effectively got to keep one clear as a headshunt?

[Danemouth]

Judging from pics the two main platforms at Porthcawl were straight while the outside platform had a slight curve in it as it gained width. Overall a nice straightforward track layout but to justify the double slip off the scissors that area ideally needs to be made to look 'hemmed in' by lineside buildings - otherwise it would have been built using a plain turnout (much cheaper). My only questions are will it contain enough operational interest with basically little more than a procession of passenger trains arriving and departing and does the sector table have enough roads in view of teh fact that you have effectively got to keep one clear as a headshunt?

 

Mike,

 

Many thanks for your comments.

 

I like the idea of a procession of passenger trains and had envisaged just parcel traffic - I will have a look at pushing the track back a little to allow a small goods yard similar to Danemouth Mk 1.

 

Will also have a look at the scissors off the double slip - I put it in originally to ensure I had enough space for my longest train - 120 cm's for three coaches + Hall.

 

Hopefully a revised plan tomorrow (Tuesday) night!

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Danemouth]

O.K. here's Version 2 of the plan with some changes:

• There is now a line going to the off-stage loco facilities with a headshunt adjacent
  
• The little goods area has gained a siding.
  
• I've had to keep the double slip on the scissors crossing - unfortunately substituting two points makes the top platform too short for a loco + 3 coaches.
  

Further comments most welcome,

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Nickinwestwales]

Hi Dave-Noted your reference to Swansea High St-Could be more useful than at first considered.

As I`m sure you realise,High St is a junction terminus with both loco and carriage facilities a couple of minutes up the line -your original plan would work well for this,with pilot engines releasing & placing stock as required,all going back out the way it came in.

With most freight traffic happening `offstage` (apart from a dedicated mail/parcels road) you could base your operations around a scaled down version:- 3 coach sets for London traffic,auto-trains for Cardiff locals & B sets for West Wales -One might even stretch a point & include a Stanier coach or two for the Heart of Wales line via Llanelli-Obviously you would need to rewrite the geography to suit your preferred location but the basic operating pattern of connecting services might prove interesting.

Indeed you could further simplify and go for a straight 4 platforms with no release roads,3 pass,1 parcels and still find you are kept fully occupied......

Could have a fabulous gantry of signals at the throat -each platform with H & D arms for both major & minor routes plus shunt signals to the sidings-that could be a showpiece on its own..

Even the name Danemouth has Swansea resonances-The English name is a corruption of old Norse:- Sweyns Eyre (or something similar )-A Viking raider who set up shop there back in the day & the Welsh ,Abertawe:- mouth of the Tawe river.

Just a few idle thoughts

Will follow with interest

ATB

Nick

[Danemouth]

Hi Dave-Noted your reference to Swansea High St-Could be more useful than at first considered.

As I`m sure you realise,High St is a junction terminus with both loco and carriage facilities a couple of minutes up the line -your original plan would work well for this,with pilot engines releasing & placing stock as required,all going back out the way it came in.

With most freight traffic happening `offstage` (apart from a dedicated mail/parcels road) you could base your operations around a scaled down version:- 3 coach sets for London traffic,auto-trains for Cardiff locals & B sets for West Wales -One might even stretch a point & include a Stanier coach or two for the Heart of Wales line via Llanelli-Obviously you would need to rewrite the geography to suit your preferred location but the basic operating pattern of connecting services might prove interesting.

Indeed you could further simplify and go for a straight 4 platforms with no release roads,3 pass,1 parcels and still find you are kept fully occupied......

Could have a fabulous gantry of signals at the throat -each platform with H & D arms for both major & minor routes plus shunt signals to the sidings-that could be a showpiece on its own..

Even the name Danemouth has Swansea resonances-The English name is a corruption of old Norse:- Sweyns Eyre (or something similar )-A Viking raider who set up shop there back in the day & the Welsh ,Abertawe:- mouth of the Tawe river.

Just a few idle thoughts

Will follow with interest

ATB

Nick

 

Nick,

 

Many thanks for your smashing response. As a Cardiff lad over fifty years ago I remember Swansea High St both for day trips to the Mumbles (and Yes, I rode on the tramway) and holidays at Saundersfoot.

 

The sort of operation you've described is what I envisage and is one reason there are no engine release roads on Platforms 1 & 2. I envisage three coach trains coming down from the "junction" behind a Grange or Hall - the platforms are sized to take three Hawksworth coaches and a Hall.

 

The local stuff will be B Sets (Prairie or Baby Collet), Autocoaches (two plus 14xx just like I remember at Porthcawl) and the B & C Flying Banana.

 

I've Hawksworth, Collet and Mk1 coaches on both B & C and Maroon - and now Staniers as well? - get behind me Satan!

 

For me the main interest will be passenger operation with the Panniers working overtime moving stock etc.

 

I want a parcels and van road - don't see much wagon traffic. I do like Siphons, GUVs Full Brakes and Vans so that will be the non passenger traffic - still debating whether to have a parcels shed or a parcels platform.

 

Afraid the signals will not have a huge gantries! My building skills are basically cr@p so the starters and yard signals will be present but I envisage the home signals being off stage.

 

The name Danemouth comes from an Agatha Christie novel - I would like a Welsh place name but as I don't speak Welsh ..........

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Danemouth]

Nick,

 

Meant to say I did consider "Llareggub" from Dylan Thomas's "Under Milk Wood" but decided against it

 

Dave

 

p.s. for those not in the know reverse the letters of the place name!

[The Stationmaster]

Meant to say I did consider "Llareggub" from Dylan Thomas's "Under Milk Wood" but decided against it

Dave

p.s. for those not in the know reverse the letters of the place name!

 

I've got a complete set of printed WR style nameboards for 'Llamedos' which my daughter gave me as a Christmas present several layout ideas back.

 

Dave the latest plan is ok but on reflection I think it would look less cramped with the original single siding at the bottom. There does seem to be a little potential problem emerging unless I'm slightly off net with one of your ideas - if a train comes in with one engine and then goes out with another that means there will be two engines plus 3 coaches in the platform or - at the very least 'inside' the platform starting signal.

[Danemouth]

I've got a complete set of printed WR style nameboards for 'Llamedos' which my daughter gave me as a Christmas present several layout ideas back.

 

Dave the latest plan is ok but on reflection I think it would look less cramped with the original single siding at the bottom. There does seem to be a little potential problem emerging unless I'm slightly off net with one of your ideas - if a train comes in with one engine and then goes out with another that means there will be two engines plus 3 coaches in the platform or - at the very least 'inside' the platform starting signal.

 

Mike,

 

Funny you should mention the cramped siding at the bottom - thinking about it I have to agree.

 

As it happens I've just viewed http://www.rmweb.co....y/page__st__125 and looked at the goods platform in #132 and #136. A parcel/vans plattform would be good but I'm not sure I would want the crane and may try a canopy (think Cardiff General Fish Dock). Will doodle the plan this evening

 

Thanks for you help,

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Flying Pig]

Danemouth was originally three 4' boards with a 4' 3" sector plate at a right angle on the left. This arrangement lead to an unforeseen problem. A second radius 90 degree curve from the sector plate took 2' 4" off the left hand board and the track entered the scenic area 6" from the back. Not a happy situation.

 

The left hand board will be scrapped and the sector plate connected directly to the middle board. This gives a scenic area of 8' by 2' and a total layout length of 12' 3".

 

I don't know what the other calls on your space are, but would it be possible to expand the layout into a truncated U with the fiddle yard against the opposite wall? I've sketched how this might work with a (larger than necessary) traverser and a cobbled together transition curve out of the station that would allow for some expansion of your station throat pointwork. Minimum radius into the fiddle yard is still second radius, but there might be room to ease this as well.

 

[Danemouth]

Simon,

 

A nice idea but the garage is narrow - have a look at the first post in http://www.rmweb.co....8-danemouth-oo/ to see what I mean. There is no way I can gain space on the other wall. As things stand the 90 degree turn out of the fiddle yard is a pain. If I were to try and remain with the existing board layout the scissors crossing would be very close to the back scene.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Danemouth]

Following the suggestions I've received and another look at "Glen Roy" Goods Platform I've further revised my plan

 

 

Further comments will be most welcome!

 

The next stage will be to lift the Danemouth Mk 1 track, re-align the baseboards and get the Peco paper templates down to see it full size.

 

I realise that I may need to lose the bottom siding to get the parcels platform in with vehicles so the full size plan is needed.

 

Luckily I retire at the end of November so I will then have time to take things forward.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Flying Pig]

I took the available width from your description at the start of this thread and the photos in your old thread - i.e. 4' 3" + 2' - which turns out to be ample. The curves on my drawing are to scale and all lie within the outline of your existing boards, with the main line pretty well central on the station boards. The second radius turn into the fiddle yard could be eased.

[edcayton]

Can I ask why you want double track? You said that your inspiration (Porthcawl) was single track. Unless you are going to be having trains in both directions at the same time (and you won't have a lot of room for error!) you could really simplify the throat and give a bit more train length.

 

Ed

[Danemouth]

Can I ask why you want double track? You said that your inspiration (Porthcawl) was single track. Unless you are going to be having trains in both directions at the same time (and you won't have a lot of room for error!) you could really simplify the throat and give a bit more train length.

 

Ed

 

Ed,

 

Porthcawl was indeed single track but ended up in a scissors in the station throat just as my plan does - have a look at http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwl/S1605.htm

 

My primary interest is passenger traffic so a seaside town fits the bill nicely.

 

Regards,

 

CDave

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Dave,

I'd stick with double track. Provides a lot more operational interest, even if you only move one loco at a time. I'd increase the number of platforms to four; the bottom one could be primarily used for parcels, but also passengers in the peak season. I'd include a short dock behind the signalbox; a useful place to park the station pilot.

 

The southernmost line off the traverser could be an empty carriage/engine line.

 

Regards,

Peter

[Nickinwestwales]

Dave-Hi again,glad my idle ramblings were of interest-since Llarregub is off the list,perhaps a slightly more oblique D.T reference -Cwmdonkin Beach after the great bards childhood home in Cwmdonkin Terrace...

On a more practical note ,what is the useable length of the run-round ?-to my somewhat jaundiced eye it looks like about 30" max-you might be able to gain a few precious inches by replacing the two back to back turnouts with another D/slip-will mean a little more shuffling of elements but might prove worth a couple of envelopes worth of scribbling...

 

Will the offstage loco depot receive its coal offstage or via the layout as a straight on & off trip working ?-would be a nice little operational trick-onstage ,run round,switch ends with the toad,back off then the same in reverse with the empties..-would only need a handful of 16t`s & a van....

 

Spent a number of happy years living around Swansea,Mumbles & Gower(indeed met my wife there)& now we live out in the far west,Saundersfoot is a regular choice for summer fri/sat fish & chips on the front (F&C only taste right when eaten outdoors looking out on the water)Like the idea of top & tail Auto coaches-rarely modelled,but look great

Roll on november & sleeves rolled & get stuck in time !!!

 

ATB

Nick

[edcayton]

Ed,

 

Porthcawl was indeed single track but ended up in a scissors in the station throat just as my plan does - have a look at http://www.s-r-s.org...l/gwl/S1605.htm

 

My primary interest is passenger traffic so a seaside town fits the bill nicely.

 

Regards,

 

CDave

 

Very like Newquay then, the station approach is double track (in Newquay's case across the viaduct to Tolcarn junction), but serving two lines.

 

Ed

[Danemouth]

I took the available width from your description at the start of this thread and the photos in your old thread - i.e. 4' 3" + 2' - which turns out to be ample. The curves on my drawing are to scale and all lie within the outline of your existing boards, with the main line pretty well central on the station boards. The second radius turn into the fiddle yard could be eased.

 

Simon,

 

The "U" shape you posted in #12 was exactly what I wanted when I first started work on a layout back in the Autumn 2009 - strewth it's 3 years already!

 

Unfortunately it's a very narrow garage, when we bought the house the estate agent' blurb described the garage as "suitable for a Mini or Fiesta" - we had a Fiesta at that time and I couldn't open the car door when it was in the garage.

 

The "L" shape that I adopted for Danemouth Mk 1 was the best I could do with the available space - experience has shown that smaller but straight will be better particularity as I now have a hankering to exhibit - just the once - but to be able to satisfy myself that I can build something to a reasonable standard given my c@ck-handedness.

 

Thanks for taking the time to draw the plan - if only I had the space - dream on!

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Danemouth]

Dave,

I'd stick with double track. Provides a lot more operational interest, even if you only move one loco at a time. I'd increase the number of platforms to four; the bottom one could be primarily used for parcels, but also passengers in the peak season. I'd include a short dock behind the signalbox; a useful place to park the station pilot.

 

The southernmost line off the traverser could be an empty carriage/engine line.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

Peter,

 

Thanks for your ideas - I still remember how they helped with Danemouth Mk 1.

 

I will have a look using Anyrail this evening. I did think when I drew the latest version of the plan that the bottom siding was probably too close to the front of the layout as I would like to be able to get a lorry or a couple of vans alongside - I really liked that effect in the shots of "Glen Roy".

 

One of the problems I had with Danemouth Mk 1 was insufficient space for the backscene - I like the idea of the loco stabling point so that will be worth another look.

 

I will be running three or possibly 4 tender engines - that's why I need offstage loco facilities - the "turntable" on this version will be A Peco Loco Lift on the Sector Plate.

 

Will put a revised plan up this evening.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dave

[Danemouth]

Very like Newquay then, the station approach is double track (in Newquay's case across the viaduct to Tolcarn junction), but serving two lines.

 

Ed

 

Ed,

 

Meant to say that the GWR apparently prepared a scheme to make the Porthcawl Branch double track on at least three occasions - the last one after WW2!

 

I still remember the autotrain from Pyle to Porthcawl in the summer of either 1956 or 57 - engine was in the middle of the train with I think two autocoaches in front and one behind, and yet in a few short years it had all been swept away!

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Danemouth]

Dave-Hi again,glad my idle ramblings were of interest-since Llarregub is off the list,perhaps a slightly more oblique D.T reference -Cwmdonkin Beach after the great bards childhood home in Cwmdonkin Terrace...

On a more practical note ,what is the useable length of the run-round ?-to my somewhat jaundiced eye it looks like about 30" max-you might be able to gain a few precious inches by replacing the two back to back turnouts with another D/slip-will mean a little more shuffling of elements but might prove worth a couple of envelopes worth of scribbling...

 

Will the offstage loco depot receive its coal offstage or via the layout as a straight on & off trip working ?-would be a nice little operational trick-onstage ,run round,switch ends with the toad,back off then the same in reverse with the empties..-would only need a handful of 16t`s & a van....

 

Spent a number of happy years living around Swansea,Mumbles & Gower(indeed met my wife there)& now we live out in the far west,Saundersfoot is a regular choice for summer fri/sat fish & chips on the front (F&C only taste right when eaten outdoors looking out on the water)Like the idea of top & tail Auto coaches-rarely modelled,but look great

Roll on november & sleeves rolled & get stuck in time !!!

 

ATB

Nick

 

Nick,

 

I've had a great time tossing ideas around on this thread and as always with RMWeb gained a great deal from it.

 

The idea of Welsh place name was something that lasted one day - I like "Danemouth" and being a South Coast station I can have carriage stock from all the other regions, particularly the green Southern stuff! Modellers licence will need to be invoked for the Dukedog when it's released!

 

The usable length of the run around is quite small - 30" maximum - once I lay the track out on the boards with paper templates I will get a better feel and may well alter things at that time.

 

I see the pickup goods including loco coal coming into the station and being shipped back out, just to give a variety of workings.

 

We went to Wiseman's Bridge for holidays several times in the 1950's - I remember the train trip with a Castle/Hall/Grange - the train would arrive at Saundersfoot (brown & cream coaches) people would disembark from the front coaches, it would then pull forward and the passengers in the rear coaches would disembark.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Peter,

 

Thanks for your ideas - I still remember how they helped with Danemouth Mk 1.

 

 

Not sure if thats a compliment or not Dave.....