AberdeenBill Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Hi all, I have shifted this to PWSI for specialist discussion. I refer you to picture 4 in post 44 in the "PGH's photographs of British Railways from ca. 1960" thread in UK prototype discussions. Flyingsignalman kindly explained that the slotting on the right-hand doll (a magnificent signal, by the way) is for a combined starter/home signal for two (presumably) very closely spaced 'boxes where there was (I assume) "no room" for a distant signal. Was this a reasonably common feature in urban areas? Was a distant provided for Royton Junction, which was slotted to both boxes? Any special bell codes to work this arrangement? Any pictures of other slotted stop signals?? Sorry, so many questions... Many thanks, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2013 On the LM Slotted stop signals were not uncommon when one box was close to another and there were connections around which necessitated one box having a starter which is in the same place as the home for the next box. They are simply stop signals which require a lever in both boxes to be reversed for them to clear. There is no need for special bell codes, the box instructions will mention it if it's considered necessary. The distants associated with such signals are no different to what would normally be provided but remember the distances between the cabins is low so it's likely that slotting would be provided, or maybe face disc working, to keep the braking distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 In the photo referred to, I think the top of the roof Royton Jcn Sidings box can just be seen behind the van in the sidings on the right, it was just this side of the bridge that can also be seen.Here are diagrams for Royton Jcn box and Royton Jcn Sidings box that may make things a bit clearer. (I appear to have missed the slots off from under signals 3 and 10 but they are shown on the Sidings box diagram)On the Royton branch, Higginshaw Gas Siding box's up home and distant were also slotted by Royton Junction box.For completeness here is the diagram for Royton Station box.Notice the line is double track but the station has only one platform, something the Railway Inspectorate weren't very happy about when the L&Y had these lines inspected (Holmfirth was another example). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 A variation on this theme would be those cases where a signal worked from a signal-box was also 'slotted' by a ground-frame. Apart from GFs controlling level-crossings, also quite common on L&SWR installations where there was a starting signal in advance of a trailing siding connection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Here is an H&B example, Down Advance slotted with the GF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Hi all, Thanks for the replies and the beautiful diagrams, but they only provoke more questions! Do the pair of yellow ground signals (No. 36 + 38) at Royton signal to the down and up main, respectively? I've never seen a pair of yellow discs before, but it's a perfectly logical setup. How does the "automatic replacer" (No. 37 at Kirk Smeaton) work? Presumably when an advanced starter is slotted to a ground frame, the lever on the GF is left reversed when the GF is not in use? The lavish complexity and extravagant use of slips in these sorts of layouts never fails to impress... Thanks again, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2013 Hi all, Thanks for the replies and the beautiful diagrams, but they only provoke more questions! Do the pair of yellow ground signals (No. 36 + 38) at Royton signal to the down and up main, respectively? I've never seen a pair of yellow discs before, but it's a perfectly logical setup. How does the "automatic replacer" (No. 37 at Kirk Smeaton) work? Presumably when an advanced starter is slotted to a ground frame, the lever on the GF is left reversed when the GF is not in use? The lavish complexity and extravagant use of slips in these sorts of layouts never fails to impress... Thanks again, Bill 36 - down sidings 38 - down main They can be passed when shunting in the up sidings - which is why they are yellow. I'm not sure how the automatic replacer works so I'll let someone else answer that, and the GF lever would probably be left reversed, but it's not unknown for the signal (slot in this case) to be off when the lever is normal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Here's my favourite.. The stop arm needs three boxes to pull it... http://www.flickr.com/photos/23987565@N05/3816531405/in/photolist-6PfHPB-eg7LVH-e1wWEv-fx2C83-dGGtaH-ai5h7M-cimY89-ai862W-ef39mr-9ToY7y-7Edasv-c5bjvy-dMsoib-ccXS8s-dGhJqn-ai5ijx-bDA4KC-9YNUv7-9cs44x-ehqSo1-ehqTUd-abtps4-abwfnj-abtpiF-abwfwL-abtpwt-7CRPqK-7CRQXz-fbepHc-fbepLV-fbtEQs-fbtEU9-fbtENu-fbtEQd-fbetC2-fbepEk-fbepMn-fbepDp-e6C415-cXMPyG-9xm63e-aZG7zz-dCEyas-9NrRvT-dKMTFi-dkNBbd-dxkCnC-ai86rb-d3mNiu-aCi3BG-gLxE4p because i have it's fog repeater.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/5943153736/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/68227206@N05/8336836927/in/photolist-dGGtaH-ai5h7M-cimY89-ai862W-ef39mr-9ToY7y-7Edasv-c5bjvy-ccXS8s-dGhJqn-ai5ijx-bDA4KC-9YNUv7-9cs44x-ehqSo1-ehqTUd-abtps4-abwfnj-abtpiF-abwfwL-abtpwt-7CRPqK-7CRQXz-fbepHc-fbepLV-fbtEQs-fbtEU9-fbtENu-fbtEQd-fbetC2-fbepEk-fbepMn-fbepDp-e6C415-cXMPyG-9xm63e-aZG7zz-dCEyas-9NrRvT-dKMTFi-dxkCnC-ai86rb-d3mNiu-aCi3BG-bs2RP1-b6NrhR-fhYu5u-aUoXcc-aUoWGB-cm7bZ5-divvBw http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/7275154036/sizes/o/in/photolist-c5T4Qh-dSooZH-dStVAY-dStYxQ-f2z2nk-eAvcbQ-eArWLH-hKS4Br-fAnKfm-hyzNDj-hwYNvw-9tHbkZ-dStVVC-b2uF3B-bzVE8K-aEGofD-cuxx3J-dSooLn-ccZET5-dq3ZtL-dq3Zo9-eiYtAh-dq3Yv3-dq3Yp1-dq3YhY-7HqLcU-eEJsED-eAvjsd-c1h7RQ-ePXShf-eFCmvm-eFCmXh-dZ7U7N-hnie9R-ePXH7b-ePLduK-9r9w2C-gZeXXD-gZeWSH-gZeXjp-ePLrEp-ePXBQo-gZeYvH-hgtsv8-dLdiuE-ekVif3-ePLcmK-fi2GM8-fsEm8w-dez3qN-coS3eC/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/11240307345/sizes/o/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Automatic replacer. Probably varies depending upon manufacturer etc, but..usual basic principle was that there was a 'mechanism' on the signal post interspersed in the down-rod connection of the weight lever to the signal arm. When the signal-box lever was pulled the wire would pull on the weight lever and the motion of the down rod was passed through the mechanism to move the arm 'off'. When the train passed over the treadle in advance of the signal then the momentary depression of that treadle would send an electrical impulse to the mechanism which caused the two parts of it to separate, allowing the upper part of the drop-rod free movement so that the arm returned to 'on'. When the SB lever was replaced to normal the weight lever would fall back, pull in the slack of the wire, and the two parts of the down-rod would be reconnected within the mechanism. I hope that's clear-ish !!! I believe that some replacers used a mechanical linkage from the treadle to operate the 'disengager' mechanism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Over DaveF's thread i'm getting excited about a Modland Region four stack disc being slotted between two boxes.. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77924-dave-fs-own-black-and-white-photos-1960s-updated-14th-december/page-7&do=findComment&comment=1262669 (post 171) This is what the mechanism looks like to slot an LMR disc.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Here is an interesting twist to "Signal Slotting". On the Northern Division of the former NERly, it was often the practise to work a "Calling On" arm and the Main signal from the same lever. This was ativied with a special slot using what was known as an "Hook". If a lower Distant arm was in use, this was slotted conventionaly with the Main Stop arm. Pulling the lever to the "Centre" position cleared the "Calling On" arm, the lever fully "Reveresed" also cleared the Main Stop arm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF-FZG Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Here are diagrams for Royton Jcn box and Royton Jcn Sidings box that may make things a bit clearer. (I appear to have missed the slots off from under signals 3 and 10 but they are shown on the Sidings box diagram) On the Royton branch, Higginshaw Gas Siding box's up home and distant were also slotted by Royton Junction box. For completeness here is the diagram for Royton Station box. Notice the line is double track but the station has only one platform, something the Railway Inspectorate weren't very happy about when the L&Y had these lines inspected (Holmfirth was another example). Hi flyingsignalman, I'm at the planning stage of a layout in N gauge to encompass Royton Station through Royton Junction with a hidden roundy-roundy with fiddle yard also behind the scenes. I've looked through your signal box diagrams, but some parts of your signal box drawings don't seem to match up with my OS maps showing the c.1900. and c.1920 track layouts, any ideas on why? My 1920 map also covers the track up to and around Royton Junction. Would the signal box diagram have changed much over time? Oh, I thought the double track in the station was to allow for engine runaround?? Regards, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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