GarrettTheThief Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So I want to build one of these and I have a Hornby Class 110 3-car unit as a donor. I know Craftsmann do a conversion kit and I know what to do with the bodyshell (remove the frames). However, I have two issues: 1) Where can I get suitable glazing? South Eastern Finecast again? 2) How can I change the interior? I have a couple of pictures but I'm not sure how to create it. Failing that, I might just use the 110 interior anyway and apply a suitable colour scheme myself. Anything else I'll need? Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I kept the original Hornby interiors and glazing in the four 104 cars I did (DMBS, DTC, DMC, TS). Two of the three driving cars used the Craftsman brass cab fronts, the third used one I scratchbuilt in plasticard. With thin brass or plasticard for the cab fronts, clear plastic/acetate glazing suffices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hi Garrett Here are some photos of one I done nearly 30 years ago and one I am doing at the moment. Both have only had the roof dome and cab windows changed. I am still debating about removing the frames on the coach side windows on the set under conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I removed all the outside window frames on mine, and additionally, I reprofiled the sides slightly, taking the 'peak' off the tumblehome in the lower sides and making it more of a curve. This doesn't cause any additional problems as the whole thing has to be repainted in any case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2014 I removed all the outside window frames on mine, and additionally, I reprofiled the sides slightly, taking the 'peak' off the tumblehome in the lower sides and making it more of a curve. This doesn't cause any additional problems as the whole thing has to be repainted in any case. Hi SRman I have been experimenting removing the window frames and the "peak" with a class 107 conversion that has been hanging about for donkey years so may well do so with the 104. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettTheThief Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 REALLY appreciate the replies. The fact I won't have to do heaps of work on the interior is a good thing (though I'll have to remove some of the arm rests but that is no big deal). It will take some time and patience, but not a huge amount of effort, to get the interior looking more than acceptable. I'll paint my unit in pure BR Blue. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDuhig Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Interesting. I started the conversion many years ago and I am just revisiting it now. Taking the window rims off the sides is a thankless task and perhaps not really worth it? Interesting to learn too that later 110s have 5-pole and better wheels etc. Not sure about 104 but several new DMU classes are supposed to come out soon including 116 which I spent a long time converting from Lima 117! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted April 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hi. The class 104 DMU is one of those conversions which I did many years ago as well. It was just after the Bachmann class 108 unit came out, for I used the chassis from one of them just simply to get all my units - without them 'fighting each other - to work in multiple (as per the prototype). I think that removing the window framing is worth in the end, for the real thing has none, and is one of the differences between it and the 110's. I just used a model knife, and carefully scraped the framing away, followed by some sand-papering to help finish them off. Here's a photo' which I hope will be of some interest - it has been posted elsewhere as well! I think that you can see the benefits of removing the framing. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDuhig Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Hi. The class 104 DMU is one of those conversions which I did many years ago as well. It was just after the Bachmann class 108 unit came out, for I used the chassis from one of them just simply to get all my units - without them 'fighting each other - to work in multiple (as per the prototype). I think that removing the window framing is worth in the end, for the real thing has none, and is one of the differences between it and the 110's. I just used a model knife, and carefully scraped the framing away, followed by some sand-papering to help finish them off. Here's a photo' which I hope will be of some interest - it has been posted elsewhere as well! I think that you can see the benefits of removing the framing. 100_5740 (800x600) - Copy.jpg All the best, Market65. Thanks for the encouragement. I first worked on the conversion over 20 years ago. I was put off by the third phrase in the instructions (to remove all the window rims) and it has lain in a box for 20 years! Following your encouragement I finished removing the window edges on all four units. I realized too that I now have a new tool from Micro-Mark (in the pictures) to make it easier to finish off and a new (harder to find these days?) Swann & Morton straight blade to boot. No blood so far, but I could have done the job more carefully! Looks like I will not use the cast pieces for behind the destination board in the kit, just sculpted expoxy resin and filler. Now figuring out how to paint and glaze the brass front overlay without removing yet more plastic structure from the cab ends.... Steven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDuhig Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Thanks for the encouragement. I first worked on the conversion over 20 years ago. I was put off by the third phrase in the instructions (to remove all the window rims) and it has lain in a box for 20 years! Following your encouragement I finished removing the window edges on all four units. I realized too that I now have a new tool from Micro-Mark (in the pictures) to make it easier to finish off and a new (harder to find these days?) Swann & Morton straight blade to boot. No blood so far, but I could have done the job more carefully! Looks like I will not use the cast pieces for behind the destination board in the kit, just sculpted expoxy resin and filler. Now figuring out how to paint and glaze the brass front overlay without removing yet more plastic structure from the cab ends.... Steven.IMG_20150411_132145_880i.jpgIMG_20150411_132159_910i.jpgIMG_20150411_132247_289i.jpgIMG_20150411_132312_551i.jpg So as you can see I decided to attempt a 4-car Class 104 with a Trailer Lav? Brake 2nd.... 'Spent ages removing the window edges and patching up my mess, only to discover that the windows were round the wrong way in the Trailer Brake... and if I cut the body the ventilators would be all askew too.... so.... cut into three, then remove sides by scoring along the drip edges. Repatriated the roof and swapped the sides...well OK I am probably the only one who would have noticed my mistake but...... LOL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi Steve Here is a link to my conversion of a 110 to a NER 104 4 car unit. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93301-dmu-conversions-for-sheffield-exchange/?p=1687947 I must do some more up todate photos of my DMU conversions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted May 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi, Steven. In my class 104 conversion for the 4 -car set, which dates from 1984, for the TBSL, I made it by altering the non-lavatory end of the class 110 TSL. This enabled the 'main-saloon' side windows to be the right way round. At the end which I altered, it was a case of making an insert that replaced the two large windows of the former class 110. The remaining things to do then were to scribe on the door 'joints' fit the hinges, and alter two of the roof vents. I've found this photo' on Flickr which I hope will be of some help - unfortunately I don't have any of the conversion which I did all those years ago, although I can take a photo' of the completed model. [/url]DMU at Stratford (Low Level) in 1970 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr">http://DMU at Stratford (Low Level) in 1970 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peak experience Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi Clive. Did you get any further with your ponderings on how to make your class 104 underframes stand up alongside the current Bachmann RTR DMU underframes. I'm at that stage myself and wondering what is the best course of action to take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi Clive. Did you get any further with your ponderings on how to make your class 104 underframes stand up alongside the current Bachmann RTR DMU underframes. I'm at that stage myself and wondering what is the best course of action to take. Hi Peak Not as yet, I tend to wander from project to project, so one day I might burst into action and rebuild the Hornby underframe. Just watch this space......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDuhig Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hi, Steven. In my class 104 conversion for the 4 -car set, which dates from 1984, for the TBSL, I made it by altering the non-lavatory end of the class 110 TSL. This enabled the 'main-saloon' side windows to be the right way round. At the end which I altered, it was a case of making an insert that replaced the two large windows of the former class 110. The remaining things to do then were to scribe on the door 'joints' fit the hinges, and alter two of the roof vents. I've found this photo' on Flickr which I hope will be of some help - unfortunately I don't have any of the conversion which I did all those years ago, although I can take a photo' of the completed model. [/url]DMU at Stratford (Low Level) in 1970 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr">http://DMU at Stratford (Low Level) in 1970 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr All the best, Market65. Thank you so much Clive. What a classic shot. I am following his photostream now too. Thank you. I was pleased to find the attached basic diagrams too. I have now reassembled the TBSL but it is encased in Tamiya filler icing at present.... http://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-104/official-4-car.php Steven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticketperson Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Hi i have the craftsman Hornby 110 dmu to 104 dmu conversion kit but i have somehow got the instductions wet and they are not now readable. As this is the case has anybody got a copy of the instructions that i could have. Either post it on this thread or email me at YOUNGKNOTTY@aol.com Thanks Edward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDuhig Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I will scan my copy for you. Steven Sent you by email as a PDF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted February 8, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2016 IIRC, the interior changes (for the Craftsman conversion) were limited to replacing the First class 2+2 seats at one end - suitable cast 2+3 'bus' seats were provided for the purpose. I recommend removing the window surrounds - it does make a big difference to the look of the finished unit. Glazing - I simply re-used the Hornby glazing. With the moulded frames removed from the body, they sit nicely flush. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted February 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2016 Please do remove the window frames. It makes such a difference. On mine, I also replaced the moulded toilet water filler pipes with wire, and that has helped things as well. With regards, The Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Hi i have the craftsman Hornby 110 dmu to 104 dmu conversion kit but i have somehow got the instductions wet and they are not now readable. As this is the case has anybody got a copy of the instructions that i could have. Either post it on this thread or email me at YOUNGKNOTTY@aol.com Thanks Edward I'm part way through doing a conversion, but not with the Craftsman set, merely files, knives and filler! Removal of the window frames in my view is a key feature of the 104 against the 110. It isn't too difficult - I used a flat chisel blade in a model knife, with the slope side against the work, just as we were taught in woodwork at school. Keep the blade against the work, with as much as possible on the window pillar to help it stay flat. Any minor blemishes can be filled and sanded, and you will probaly need to sand a bit in any case just to get everything nice and smooth. If you do the windows you will have to do a repaint, so you may as well zap the water fillers and replace with wire as Rob says, and also scrape/ sand off the sharp angle on the lower bodyside to make a gentle curve. In my case I intend to finish the model in lined DMU green and after deliberation I've decided to carve off the door handrails and replace with brass ones - probably some Southern Pride ones left over from another project. I'll drill the holes for these before painting, but only put them in after painting and lining, as I think it'll be a lot easier to get the lining straight without having to fit it over moulded handrails. If I was doing blue (unlined) I probably wouldn't bother. Hope that helps! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 After making the last post I looked back over the thread, and specifically Clive's post at the top of the page with a photo of one he did 30 years ago. You might consider before doing any of the windows, water fillers, bodyprofile and repainting these require, if you're actually happy with a model without as seen in the photos. It certainly looks the part, particularly I imagine in motion on a layout, and could be arrived at a lot quicker than by doing the mods. It would of course have been trailblazing in its time, when many folk were still messing about with the original underscale Triang 101's! Your call! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDuhig Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yes John & Rob I did all those things to my four car, except attention to the tumblehome? It is definitely possible to build good parts out of plastic, perhaps even desirable, as that will make them easier to glue too. Following, and in addition to, your example John... After my experience (Yes, I wish I had done the scribing and applied the detail throughout now), it is probably a good idea for a first class model to: 1) Trim all details lightly off with a scalpel. 2) Mark positions of handles, grab rails, hinges and door stoppers with #76 holes. 3) Sand the sides completely smooth. 4) Scribe the doorways with a scriber and a steel edge. 5) Add brass hinges, door stops, door handles, and grab handles from a brass detail fret (I have some PC Models Mk1 coach details frets to use) now listed as out of stock at Peter's Spares but may be available direct from www.shaplan.com/fittings as: SHAWPLAN DP45-31 (Previously PC Models). 6) Add longer grab rails from brass handrail wire. I suspect we'll see Rob's effort before mine as it has taken me over 26 years to date... LOL Steven. PS Anybody know why/what advantage there would be in reglazing with South Eastern Finecast product? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Steven, I doubt if there would be any advantage to using the SE Finecast glazing, as the Hornby stuff fits very well and is of the right depth. Some of the SEF stuff I've used is too deep for the window mouldings (in other vehicles), and so has to be set back inside to make the exterior flush. One nasty I came across a little while ago in respect of glazing is that all the 104 pics I've found show the bars and verticals between the glass parts to be painted body colour. If anyone has contrary evidence, especially for green 104's I'd love to know. The Hornby glazing has these lines in silver, which is fine for green 110's but only these. It looks like a lot of tiresome painting or pen marking, or maybe some modellers licence as the silver looks quite smart! My modelling progress verges on glacial, so you may finish before me! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peak experience Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'm at the point of glazing and I'm going to be using the Hornby original glazing units. My model is painted BR Blue with Railmatch acrylic. For certain though, the acrylic paint doesn't adhere to the glazing bars which were painted blue and I'm wondering how I should next proceed. I'm at a bit of a loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDuhig Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Yes I have identified this challenge too, looks like you and I are stuck with enamels then. Perhaps a very fine enamel paint pen from a craft shop and a good straight edge will do? Steven Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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