Lint grass supertest

[Douglas G]

 
What lint? Best buys revealed
 
Reliance, Superdrug, Robinson brands: but who’s got the Don’t Buys?
 
 
23 January 2014
 

 
For more than two decades experts have recommended the use of surgical or absorbent cotton lint to create realistic grass for model railways. However, while there are examples where lint has been used to impressive effect—such as Copenhagen Fields, Highbury and County Gate—many of our members have reported poor results with lint products purchased in recent years. It is also clear that suitable lint is becoming virtually impossible to find on the high street. So just what is going on?
 
Most of the current problems with lint can be attributed to regulatory and safety issues—as for other several other consumer products reviewed recently. There is evidence that lint dressings and lint fibres can cause wound infections and inflammation, to the extent that the NHS and pharmacy suppliers have become concerned. The fibres can also become enmeshed in wounds as they heal, leading to contamination and bleeding when the lint is removed.
 
These concerns have in turn influenced the length and density of the nap or fibres used for the absorbent lint wound dressings still being manufactured. Some high-street retailers, such as Boots, have decided to stop stocking lint, especially given that alternative, modern wound dressings are available.
 
While we believe there are no safety implications for the use of lint in modelling, members with concerns can find out more using the following links:
 
Foreign Debris and Post-Surgical Issues
 
SSI Prevention Pointers from Industry
 
Complications associated with lint and fibres
 
 
In the past these products were called “Surgical Lint”, as in the much-loved lint produced over many years by Boots. Some of the lint dressings now available are described as “Absorbent Lint BPC”. BPC stands for the British Pharmaceutical Codex, which is a list of product specifications published by the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain to supplement the British Pharmacopoeia (which did not cover all the medicinal items that a pharmacist might require). The last edition of the BPC appeared in 1994.
 
Other lint products are described as “Absorbent Cotton Lint BP” or “Absorbent Lint BP”, with “BP” standing for British Pharmacopoeia. Our researcher could find no mention of these names in the current edition of the British Pharmacopoeia, which is the official compendium of quality standards for UK medicinal substances. There is, however, a listing for “Absorbent Cotton” in the Wound Materials section, which specifies various characteristics, including fibre length and purity.
 
As well as the safety issues, another factor affecting the use of lint for grass is the emergence of new technologies, in particular static grass fibres and static grass mats. The German manufacturer Noch has been at the forefront of these innovations with its Grass Master, and its products are becoming easier to obtain in this country through the UK importer Gaugemaster. Several UK manufacturers have also entered the static grass market, including Green Scene, FMR and WWS.
 
Many of our members have reported good results with static grass while failing to achieve success with recently bought brands of lint. You can see reviews of static grasses and reports of members’ experiences here:
 
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64167-static-grass-tips-and-techniques/
 
As a result of all these factors, it is being widely suggested that lint grass has had its day.
 
 
 
Do modern lints match up?
 
 
So can lint grass still be recommended for the railway modeller, and what brand should you buy? When you’re in the shop, how do you tell one white lint from another? You can’t. The way to make sure you’re buying a lint you can rely on is to read our lint reviews.
 
It is a while since the performance and availability of lint has been considered here. So now, in our new Super Test, we are looking at the full range of available lints, from the old favourites used as benchmarks to the latest brands currently available in high street chains.
 
The results vary massively. The Best Buys we’ve found will deliver a fantastic result for your layout grass, and got impressive scores in our tests. However, availability is an issue. Some others are named as Don’t Buys, but what’s the real difference between them?
 
{TO BE CONTINUED}

[allan downes]

 

 

"What lint? Best buys revealed

 

 

Reliance, Superdrug, Robinson brands: but who’s got the Don’t Buys?"

 

 

Robinson brands.

[Tricky-CRS]

Thank you Douglas I will take notes from this thread for my new layout.

[Douglas G]

Update:

 

There may be a delay in our test results as our researcher is having problems of supply with our online pharmaceutical suppliers and we may need to go to another dealer.

 

Hmmm, better rephrase that, it sounds dodgy...

[synthnut]

...Oh, and there I was thinking "yay, at last a use for the fluff from the tumble dryer" but alas.  ;-)

Then again, maybe...hmmm?

 

TTFN,

Ben

[Douglas G]

...Oh, and there I was thinking "yay, at last a use for the fluff from the tumble dryer" but alas.  ;-)

Then again, maybe...hmmm?

 

TTFN,

Ben

Why not give it a go!

 

Belly buttons are another possible source...

 

*****

 

Our test lab has now got all our samples together and once they have been photographed by our photographic department, the tests will begin.

 

"What Railway" Editorial Team

[Oldddudders]

"What Railway" Editorial Team

Brilliant! Another thread I really enjoy.

 

Of course the "What XXXX" magazines can be immensely helpful when you make an occasional purchase in an unfamiliar field - be it a car, a cellphone or a holiday. There was a proposal for one for sportsfans - tentatively entitled "What Balls"!

[Kenton]

 

The last edition of the BPC appeared in 1994.

Just a note for those who might be shocked or worried by that comment.

 

The BP and BPC were replaced in 1994 under the EU Protocol (ETS No. 134) by the Ph Eu (European Pharmacopoeia). The latest update to which became official in January 2014.

 

Since 1994 it has been the standard requirement for application for approval in Europe. since 2001 EU directives (2001/82/EC and 2001/83/EC) it has been legally binding on all EU states.

 

The concept is one marketing approval (MAA) across Europe where as prior to that date expensive and often quite different approvals (standards) were required by each member state. Often delaying the approval and increasing the cost to market of medicines.

 

Of course just because approval is obtained across Europe doesn't mean that each country doesn't impose its own political control over what should be made available (NICE for example in the UK).

[Douglas G]

WHAT?

 

Lint reviews

 

ü Choose your perfect lint from our reviews and Best Buys

ü We've tested products from Reliance, Superdrug, Robinson and many more

ü Impartial tests and hands-on-reviews of lints available from high street retailers and online

 

Best Buys   The top lints we recommend

Don't Buys   The lints we think you should avoid

 

 

We’ve reviewed 12 lints

 

Alvita Absorbent Lint BPC
Alliance Healthcare
[Available in 25g, 100g and 500g sizes from various retailers]
http://www.alliance-healthcare.co.uk/documents/121975/99b908d9-1448-4387-8226-21b384e20450


Boots Absorbent Surgical Lint
Boots
[Discontinued product, available as 4 oz pack]


Clini Absorbent Lint BPC
CliniSupplies
[Available in 25g, 100g and 500g sizes from various retailers]
http://clinidirect.co.uk/search?q=lint


Europlast Absorbent Lint
Frank Sammeroff
[Discontinued product but still available online in 15g size; differs from Frank Sammeroff branded product below]
http://cheshirestuff.com/gb/everything-else/118-4-boxes-of-15g-europlast-absorbent-lint-dressing-hypoallergenic-latex-free-60g.html


Fastaid Absorbent Lint
Robinson Healthcare
[Available in 25g, 100g and 500g sizes from various retailers]
http://www.robinsonhealthcare.com/epages/rhc.sf/sec0809744c8d/?ObjectPath=/Shops/DemoShop/Products/7163


Fortuna Absorbent Cotton Lint BP
Fortuna Healthcare
[Available in 25g and 100g sizes from various retailers]
http://www.easiliving.com/product_range/first_aid/wound_care/absorbent_cotton_lint_bp_100g/


Frank Sammeroff Absorbent Lint
Frank Sammeroff
[Discontinued product, 500g size*]


Green Scene GS302 Dyed Lint
Green Scene
[Currently unavailable due to supply problems*]
http://www.green-scene.co.uk/Accessories.html


“Queensquare” Absorbent Surgical Lint
Unbranded
[Discontinued product, a previous Best Buy; as used in Highbury Colliery*]
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/38581-highbury-colliery/page-12


Relilint Absorbant Cotton Lint BP
Reliance Medical
[Available in 15g size only from various retailers]
http://www.reliancemedical.co.uk/Dress_relilint.html


Safe & Sound Health Absorbent Lint
Paul Murray
[Available in 15g and 25g sizes from various retailers]
http://www.murrayshealthandbeauty.com/productlist/4/79998770/BANDAGES_&_DRESSING.html#


Superdrug Absorbent Lint
Superdrug
[Available in 25g size only from Superdrug, in-store or online]
http://www.superdrug.com/superdrug-lint-25g/invt/273716&bklist


*Many thanks to members Jerry (Queensquare) and Carl (Carlwooduk) for providing samples
 

 

Brands not included in this test

 

Not in our tests this time is Wilko White Lint from Wilkinsons, which is no longer available but was included when we last considered lints in March 2008:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=322140

 

Also not included is Numark Absorbent Lint BPC, which has been discontinued by Numark but still appears to be available in 500g size from one online retailer:
http://www.micglobal.co.uk/absorbent-lint-i1370.html
 

 

Does size matter?

 

Lints are sold by weight, not sheet size. Smaller sizes usually come folded. A 25g pack typically gives a sheet around 25cm X 45cm. A 500g pack of Fastaid lint has a roll 45cm in width and some 5½ m long.

 

We believe there are only three brands currently produced in a 500g pack—Fastaid, Alvita and Clini. Some remaindered stocks of the Numark brand (not tested here) are also available in the 500g size.

 

If you are sticking the lint down whole on its backing, then ideally a large sheet size is needed to avoid visible joins. If you are sticking the lint hairy side down and then peeling off the backing, the size of the sheets is not a particular issue. However, the small sizes will work out much more expensive per unit area.

{TO BE CONTINUED}

[Douglas G]

Lint reviews

 

How are the tests carried out?

 

Our tests are carried out in our East Midlands test facility under strictly controlled and standardised conditions.

 

While some members colour the lint after it is stuck down, many dye the lint first. A variety of dyes is available. We suggest using hand dyes, such as Dylon hand fabric dye and Marabu EasyColor, which are both readily available on the High Street. Washing machine dyes are best avoided, as it is not possible to control the amount of dye that is taken up by (and they may cause marital strife if the machine is not cleaned properly after use…).

 

 

 

 

For our tests the lint samples (apart from the Green Scenes, which was ready coloured) are dyed with Dylon Tropical Green hand fabric dye for 30 minutes with salt added as per the instructions. This gives quite a bright green but we thought it would show up well in our tests. It is also possible to use Olive Green dye, perhaps mixed with some Yellow. Once dyed and dried, our technician then assesses the degree of take up of the dye and the evenness of the colour.

 

Small plywood base boards 10cm X 8cm were prepared for the samples by sealing the top surface with Evostick PVA adhesive, allowing to dry, and then painting with Humbrol #119 Matt Light Earth enamel paint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As some users use lint whole in the manner of grass mats—as was originally done for Copenhagen Fields—we first assess the products’ suitability for this method. The lints are stuck to the baseboard using PVA with the backing down. Once dry, they are examined for thickness of nap, length of fibre, visibility of the weave of the backing through the nap, and the overall similarity to real grass.

 

For the peel-off method, the dyed samples are stuck with the lint fibres face down on to the base boards using PVA adhesive. A very thin layer of adhesive only is applied to base so that adhesive does not penetrate through the fibres to the backing weave of the lint. The samples are allowed to dry 24 hours, then the backing is carefully peeled off. The resulting lint grass is assessed for thickness and length of grass fibres, uniformity of coverage and overall realism.

 

{TO BE CONTINUED}

[Captain Kernow]

Fascinating, I shall watch for further postings with interest!

 

I've always used Dylon Olive Green, as this tends to give a more muted, subdued and 'plant-like' green than anything else. I've never bothered with salt, just bunged it in a bucket of water and put the lint in. I find that the amount of time you leave the lint in the dye, will vary the hue. Don't forget to do this in the room with the olive green carpet, and wear your olive green shirt and trousers too...!

 

I used to used Boots lint, when it was available, but now I've got some stocks from an alternative source, but as they're packed away high up, I can't immediately access them.

 

The way the lint is glued (fibres down) to the scenic landscape is very important, as is the strength of said scenic landscape, to be able to withstand the careful removal of the lint. It is also vital to paint the landscape the right colour before gluing the lint down. I've tried a 'soil' brown before, but in fact, a similar 'olive' type green to the actual lint seems to work best.

[Douglas G]

Don't forget to do this in the room with the olive green carpet, and wear your olive green shirt and trousers too...!

 

I was wearing a nice white suit, but now have a fantastic outfit for next St Patrick's Day...

[Douglas G]

The results are in!

 

Taking over this thread from the "What Railway" team (because it takes them too long to produce the copy), I have to say the results are not quite what I expected.

 

As noted above, for the tests I used small squares of plywood sealed with PVA and then painted with brown Humbrol matt enamel paint. I did this because of all the warnings I have been given that you need a sound, sealed surface to stick down the lint if you are going to peel off the backing. I also took care to only apply a very thin layer of PVA before sticking down the lint.

 

However, for almost all the samples—which had hardly any lint fibres and which I didn't expect to work to be honest—no lint fibres stayed stuck down when I peeled of the backing after 24 hours drying of the glue. Instead, as I peeled off the lint, the PVA peeled off the plywood backing in a complete layer. I am wondering if the enamel paint gave too smooth a finish for the PVA to stick, or was it just that the lints were unsuitable. Perhaps the results would have been different with emulsion or acrylic as the paint?

 

Even the old sample of an unnamed brand of lint that Jerry (Queensquare) sent me did not peel off leaving any fibres behind.

 

The only lints that worked for the peel-off method were the old Boots product I bought off eBay, and the ready dyed lint produced by Green Scene. Even the Boots product did not work that well, with patches of the PVA peeling off with the fibres. I think as well as the possible issue with the paint surface, the fibres on the Boots product were perhaps too long and could have done with a bit of trimming first.

 

So the winner of this "Supertest" is Green Scene dyed lint, with Boots surgical lint coming second.

 

Applause, thank you speech etc.

 

But there is a problem...I was told by the proprietor at the weekend that Green Scene have discontinued their lint as supplies of the lint used are no longer available.

 

None of the other lints currently available seem suitable on the basis of this test. It is not really surprising, as none of them had lint fibres anywhere near the length and thickness of the Green Scene and Boots products. And they were also unsuitable for sticking down whole, as the backing weave was extremely visible, with the Superdrug product being worst.

 

So where do we go from here?

 

The only answer would seem to be to raid first aid boxes, Scout huts, schools etc., for any old lint you can find. If you can find Boots surgical lint, this should work. I have also been told that Smith and Nephew lint used to be good.

 

Otherwise, perhaps lint has had its day and static grass is the new king on the block.

 

I will try to get some pictures up of my results and may try repeating the test with what I found to be the best products, to see if I get better results with another sort of paint.

 

Douglas

[Douglas G]

Jonathan (Gt.Shefford) of this parish has sent me a sample of a material he has obtained as a substitute for surgical lint for making grass (using the stick down and peel off method).

 

I found it worked pretty well on a test piece, although the backing was quite hard to peel off, so the surface it is stuck to will need to be sound. Jonathan puts it down uncoloured and then paints it an airbrush using Railmatch Doncaster Green.

 

Jonathan says if anyone wants a sample or a meter length, to send him a PM (user name Gt.Shefford).

[Gt.Shefford]

Thanks Douglas, the image below is a small sample to show the material.

 

 

The base is a shaped bit of Celotex, painted with a brown acrylic with the 'lint' material stuck fluffy side down. When the glue (screwfix own brand PVA) is dry the backing is carefully pulled off and the resulting 'grass' painted using an airbrush so as not to flattern the fluff.

 

Anyone wanting a sample (A5 size) PM me

 

Jonathan

[jonhall]

Douglas, please would you consider repeating the test using a non-sealed surface to see if that was the cause of your problems? I do quite like the idea of having a go with lint - but obviously it has to actualy work!

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[Douglas G]

Hi Jon,

 

I can give it a go with the ones where I have some left.

 

However, I am convinced that the problem is the reduction in the amount of fibres in modern lints to avoid wound contamination. All or most of the new products simply aren't suitable. This has been confirmed to me in conversation with the proprietor of Green Scene, who has stopped stocking it because he can't get suitable lint anymore.  Apparently the best stuff was made by Smith and Nephew.

 

The sample of the Green Scene lint I had worked really well, but I have none left, and the old Boots stuff I got off ebay wasn't bad and I will try using it again. The product that Jonathan bought a roll of is also worth a go - it is not lint but some other type of dressing..

 

To be honest, without even sticking them down I could see that most of the currently available absorbent lints I bought from chemists just weren't going to work, as the fibres were not thick and long enough. The best of the brands currently available for thickness and length of the fibres was Fortuna absorbent cotton lint, with Alvita second - they might work with a different glue or non-sealed backing. Perhaps it is worth you getting some Fortuna lint to try yourself - you can by it in a small size from various chemists or online.

 

Douglas

[Douglas G]

Here are some pictures of my trials with the best two of the currently available absorbent lints and the old sample of Boots surgical lint that I have dyed green.

 

Left to right in each case: Fortuna, Alvita and Boots:

 

 

 

I have tried colouring part of the lints with Letraset Promarkers, but I think they look too bright to look natural; dyeing or paint spraying would be better.

 

This time the lints are stuck to plywood with no paint coating. Previously the plywood was coated first with Humbrol matt brown enamel, to which the PVA did not stick so well, although it worked OK with the Boots and Green Scene sample.

 

Without the paint the lints have stuck better. However, both the Fortuna and Alvita lints are very sparse, particularly the Alvita, and the wood of the base shows through. The old Boots lint is far thicker and has longer fibers, that could be trimmed as required.

 

It might be possible to get away with the Fortuna lint for very short grass on a green background, but the old lint is far better for modelling purposes.

 

While my original tests may have not been completely fair given that the PVA adhesive did not stick well to the paint, when using lint on a layout it is going to be important that it is not too difficult to peel off the lint so that the base is not damaged or lifted up. This would not be a problem with the Green Scene and Boots lints, but could be with the others.

 

Douglas