Dummy point motor placement.

[McGomez]

I recently bought some Peco dummy point motors and was about to fit them when I realised that there was more than one way to place them.

I´ve looked through some books for clues and the web but I´ve not found any conclusive evidence of which way is the correct way OR can they be placed either way?

 

The second question is what part of the point motor connected to the tie bar?

The smaller of the 3 tabs that protrude either side or are the 2 larger tabs both connected to the point via 2 tie bars?

 

The third question is, can a point motor be positioned between 2 running lines as seen on the photo below, of a crossover?

I wasn´t going to put them there but just wondered?

 

 

My layout is predominantly late 70s/early 80s if that has any bearing on matters.

 

Thanks in advance.

Andy

[TheSignalEngineer]

Try this shot. The three rods to the left of the switch blades are for the lock and detector slides. The other single one drives the points.

 

 

The two bits sticking out on the base sit on the extended timbers.

 

Edit; Usually best to put it in the widest available interval if it can't go in the cess.

Edited April 12, 2014 by TheSignalEngineer

[phil-b259]

The type of point machine illustrated is called a "HW Point Machine" produced these days by Signalling solutions (was Alstom / GEC) in two versions depending on whether they have a straight friction or an electromagnetic clutch - the latter being AC immune for overhead areas. As you can see the operating bits come out of the grey covers (and the bits themselves can be swapped round to operate a point on the other side with relative ease). The point machine thus needs to sit with the sleep being between the two grey covers with the cover towards the middle being located above the point operating tie-bar extension. However it is important to remember that you need to extend the sleepers so the point machine actually sits on top of - not next to them as I have seen in at least one picture on the net.

[McGomez]

Many thanks for the replies, guys. Appreciated.

 

Were there any other designs of point motor that would have been seen during the 70s/early 80s?

 

In the Signal Engineers photo, would the cables running into the tube and under the rails have been painted orange as you see on today´s railway?

 

Would those cables have run into concrete cable trunking or would they have gone into some sort of metal control cabinet?

 

Once again, thanks in advance.

 

Andy.

 

(Edited for typo)

Edited April 13, 2014 by McGomez

[The Stationmaster]

Many thanks for the replies, guys. Appreciated.

 

Were there any other designs of point motor that would have been seen during the 70s/early 80s?

 

In the Signal Engineers photo, would the cables running into the tube and under the rails have been painted orange as you see on today´s railway?

 

Would those cables have run into concrete cable trunking or would they have gone into some sort of metal control cabinet?

 

Once agian, thanks in advance.

 

Andy.

Huge variety of point machines still in use in the 1970s as some quite old designs were still being installed up the mid 1960s and possibly later in that decade and of course some pre-war installations made it into the very early 1970s.  Generally under the Modernisation Plan resignalling schemes a single main contractor did a particular scheme or area so it would be their style of signals and their own point machine design but with painting and numbering to the particular BR Region's individual standards.

 

I think the orange pipe is 1980s but can't be sure on that one.

[Southernman46]

and the innards just for flavour.................

 

 

 

 

 

[LNERGE]

A few from me..

 

 

 

 

I've noticed several layouts at exhibitions where the machines are placed incorrectly. On the one layout where they were placed somewhere near right no attempt had been made to represent the extended timbers.

[Pete 75C]

Huge variety of point machines still in use in the 1970s as some quite old designs were still being installed up the mid 1960s and possibly later in that decade and of course some pre-war installations made it into the very early 1970s.  Generally under the Modernisation Plan resignalling schemes a single main contractor did a particular scheme or area so it would be their style of signals and their own point machine design but with painting and numbering to the particular BR Region's individual standards.

 

I think the orange pipe is 1980s but can't be sure on that one.

 

There was a thread covering this a while back, sorry, I can't for the life of me remember what the title was, but the general consensus was that the orange ducting was post 1976, so 80s for sure. There were the usual disagreements that it could be seen earlier than the mid 70s and also not until the 90s!

[LNERGE]

Oh and the machine should be 3' 3'' or 990mm from inside edge of running rail to centre line of machine (13mm in OO?)

[Del]

In SignalEngineer's photo, the pipe would have been self-coloured orange plastic (not painted) when new, and has got quite heavily 'weathered'. The cables themselves wouldn't be coloured.

[LNERGE]

And how not to do it..

 

[McGomez]

Thanks once again for the replies gents.

 

Re the orange tube. I meant the tube but it does read as though I was referring to the cable so thanks Del.

Maybe the orange tubes of today are made of a type of plastic that is self cleaning?? I can´t remember them from my late 70s/early 80s youth thats for sure.

 

Re the innards, it certainly makes wiring a Tortoise look easy!

 

With your help I have now ballasted around my first point and added the motor. I extended the sleepers but I think I over did it a bit! There must be a prototype for it somewhere though!

I should have also cut the original sleepers back to the slots that are for the installation of the PECO underboard motors. I´ll have to fill them as they stand out like a sore thumb.

 

I also glued some old offcuts of LED legs (always knew they´d come in handy!) to the underside of the motor housing to give a representation of the blade actuators.

 

 

 

This is my one and only catch point. Hopefully it can be treated in exactly the same way as a normal point?

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks once again for the replies gents.

 

Re the orange tube. I meant the tube but it does read as though I was referring to the cable so thanks Del.

Maybe the orange tubes of today are made of a type of plastic that is self cleaning?? I can´t remember them from my late 70s/early 80s youth thats for sure.

 

Re the innards, it certainly makes wiring a Tortoise look easy!

 

With your help I have now ballasted around my first point and added the motor. I extended the sleepers but I think I over did it a bit! There must be a prototype for it somewhere though!

I should have also cut the original sleepers back to the slots that are for the installation of the PECO underboard motors. I´ll have to fill them as they stand out like a sore thumb.

 

I also glued some old offcuts of LED legs (always knew they´d come in handy!) to the underside of the motor housing to give a representation of the blade actuators.

 

14-04-13 Dummy Point motor (1) - copia.JPG

 

14-04-13 Dummy Point motor (2) - copia.JPG

 

This is my one and only catch point. Hopefully it can be treated in exactly the same way as a normal point?

Yes but with one proviso - on the Peco catch/trap point there is only a single switch blade therefore instead of 3 detector rods you only needs one (although in reality most motorised traps have two switch rails nowadays).

[LNERGE]

Yes but with one proviso - on the Peco catch/trap point there is only a single switch blade therefore instead of 3 detector rods you only needs one (although in reality most motorised traps have two switch rails nowadays).

As a complete aside i'm looking for the photos of a pair of HW's i've installed on a Network Rail main line with no lock rod or detection rods..

[LNERGE]

Found one! Wasn't on the computer but on a disc.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Found one! Wasn't on the computer but on a disc.

 

DSC02712.jpg

Hi Richard

 

What is this motor operating, please?

[LNERGE]

Hi Richard

 

What is this motor operating, please?

[Clive Mortimore]

HI Richard

 

Is it a lock for a swing bridge, ECML double track, Selby?

[LNERGE]

Sliding bridge double track Keadby.

 

 

Photo possibly taken on 30th November 2003 at 15:40 and nine seconds...

 

Edited April 13, 2014 by LNERGE

[McGomez]

Yes but with one proviso - on the Peco catch/trap point there is only a single switch blade therefore instead of 3 detector rods you only needs one (although in reality most motorised traps have two switch rails nowadays).

Thanks Mike.

Snipped the 2 that were not required.

 

[Pete 75C]

I have to say Andy, that does look rather good. I'm at the ballasting stage myself and now feel the need to add some point motors. Being lazy, I wasn't going to bother but your pictures have changed my mind!

[McGomez]

I have to say Andy, that does look rather good. I'm at the ballasting stage myself and now feel the need to add some point motors. Being lazy, I wasn't going to bother but your pictures have changed my mind!

Thanks Pete.

I was discussing with a friend at the weekend the fact that it´s the small details that bring a layout to life which in my case is pretty hypocritical as I reckon that point motor is the first small detail I´ve added to my roundy roundy layout in 7 or so years of building!!

Wadden Marsh is looking really good. I hadn´t dropped in for 2 weeks. There wasn´t any track down then. You´ve now got track and scenics!!

[Pete 75C]

I have to agree about the little details but I'm a recent convert. I read an article by Cyril Freezer years ago that said if something can't be clearly seen from average viewing distance why bother with it? I used that as a mantra for years but as I've only got a 6' x 18" scenic section at the moment, I've now changed my mind. Point motors have been purchased! Lineside troughing and ground signals may be on the cards too. At this rate, I might scratchbuild something... God forbid! Good luck with the layout. Pete.

[LNERGE]

Thanks Pete.

I was discussing with a friend at the weekend the fact that it´s the small details that bring a layout to life which in my case is pretty hypocritical as I reckon that point motor is the first small detail I´ve added to my roundy roundy layout in 7 or so years of building!!

Wadden Marsh is looking really good. I hadn´t dropped in for 2 weeks. There wasn´t any track down then. You´ve now got track and scenics!!

Now all you need is a little sound file that plays every time you operate a point..

 

[McGomez]

Now all you need is a little sound file that plays every time you operate a point..

 

I´ve got 2 Fulgarex point motors that are louder than that!!

I finally went for the tortoise.

Thanks for uploading.