RonnieS Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I have just acquired a rather scruffy Hornby Grange with a view to turning it into 6844. I have a spare Hawksworth tender so she will be as cica '62. There are a few bits missing i.e. the vac pump body. So really (being an LMR man) I could do with a few pointers on how to replicate the kind of improvement one gets with a Brassmasters Black 5 upgrade. First up is to improve the performance. The loco is a real featherweight at 215g. As it has the same motor as the 400g Brit. I think something along the lines of Silver Sidelines Hornby New Castle - at the cab end and replacing the DCC facility plug with a lump of lead at the front may do it? Again an rmweb reader has undoubtedly done this and can offer a bit of advice. A Grange at Bilston Central showing the vac pump. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Packing lead into the loco will be a winner, both for improving traction and pick up, but aim for the loco to balance as closely as possible to the centre driver. Big problems with Hornby's tenders: the pick ups can be very draggy, especially once they have had some running; the frequent use of inside bearings on their tenders another source of friction, especially as they are often way heavier than they need to be. Worth assessing what the loco can do alone, weighting it sufficiently for the job on your layout with a tender modified to eliminate these detrimental features. Often means it is not such a struggle on the loco, packing the weight in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Hello Ronnie Good to get a mention. Bucklebury Grange 220gm - as you say. Overton Grange 275gm - so yes I must have 'done' something! Things to do outside so will report further later. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Packing lead into the loco will be a winner, both for improving traction and pick up, but aim for the loco to balance as closely as possible to the centre driver. Big problems with Hornby's tenders: the pick ups can be very draggy, especially once they have had some running; the frequent use of inside bearings on their tenders another source of friction, especially as they are often way heavier than they need to be. Worth assessing what the loco can do alone, weighting it sufficiently for the job on your layout with a tender modified to eliminate these detrimental features. Often means it is not such a struggle on the loco, packing the weight in. Hi I do agree with you on balance, Strange that Hornby do not! The Royal Scot is front heavy by 80g! I chopped a bit of the front ballast weight in mine and added weight rear of the centre drivers. I have also started to dispense with the tender pick ups. On a layout with all live frog points they are not needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 As promised an update.Taking the Grange apart reminds me why I wouldn't want to be a Hornby service agent. It is very delicate.Yes I have added lead. I made a cylinder of brown paper, closed one end and pushed it into the smoke box before dropping in some lead shot around 50gm. My brown paper started off around 75mm by 75mm and ended up nearer 65mm square. It is a bit trial and error.Spot the brown paper parcel in the smoke boxI have added a picture to give you the idea. I take on board 32C's comments and suspect that my ballast will have made the engine front heavy. 50gm works for me. The bodyshell of the Grange is not something that you will be wanting to take on and off too many times to adjust the ballast.Some ideas for you.RegardsRay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 Hello Ronnie Good to get a mention. Bucklebury Grange 220gm - as you say. Overton Grange 275gm - so yes I must have 'done' something! Things to do outside so will report further later. Regards Ray You are the first port of calls,Ray a very valuable blog! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 As promised an update. Taking the Grange apart reminds me why I wouldn't want to be a Hornby service agent. It is very delicate. Yes I have added lead. I made a cylinder of brown paper, closed one end and pushed it into the smoke box before dropping in some lead shot around 50gm. My brown paper started off around 75mm by 75mm and ended up nearer 65mm square. It is a bit trial and error. Spot the brown paper parcel in the smoke box I have added a picture to give you the idea. I take on board 32C's comments and suspect that my ballast will have made the engine front heavy. 50gm works for me. The bodyshell of the Grange is not something that you will be wanting to take on and off too many times to adjust the ballast. Some ideas for you. Regards Ray Great, I also found (by putting a blu tack dummy on top of the motor) there is room for a 30x10x5 lump of lead in the fire box top. As far as the delicate bit: Mine is a bit damaged so the weight 1st then the repairs. There is no vac pump body. I guess I will have to make one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Yes - there is a a bit of space at the firebox end of the motor and rather than Blue-tac it might be possible to add two strips of lead. As to vacuum pumps you will be aware that Honrby have dispensed with the vacuum piston on their latest offerings - although the cylinder is still moulded to the footplate. It is hardly visible being covered by a length of wire (piping)? The picture below of Bucklebury Grange was previously posted here on RMweb on the Hornby Grange thread. Regards Ray Latest Hornby Granges come without vacuum piston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 28, 2014 Yes - there is a a bit of space at the firebox end of the motor and rather than Blue-tac it might be possible to add two strips of lead. As to vacuum pumps you will be aware that Honrby have dispensed with the vacuum piston on their latest offerings - although the cylinder is still moulded to the footplate. It is hardly visible being covered by a length of wire (piping)? The picture below of Bucklebury Grange was previously posted here on RMweb on the Hornby Grange thread. Regards Ray Latest Hornby Granges come without vacuum piston Yes, possibly an assembly error (of omission) but it doesn't show too much particularly from normal viewing angles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 3.jpg A Grange at Bilston Central showing the vac pump. Not that it affects the thread, but are sure this is a Grange? Looks more like a Manor to me. Boiler way too small for a no 1 and the safety valve is before the first boiler band as a Manor's no 14 boiler. The challenge with the Grange and most other GWR rtr locos is the vacuum pump is attached to the body whilst the actuating piston is attached to the chassis and by having to separate the two there is always the possibility of damage. I remove the pump from the body and fix to an arm which is attached to the cylinder block. This way, when taking the body off, all remains with the chassis. To illustrate, below is one I attached to a Triang Hornby chassis for use under a Wills Saint. The body comes off and the vacuum pump is not disturbed. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Ooh Mike - you might have a point .... but are sure this is a Grange? Looks more like a Manor to me. .One I took earlier (a lot earlier) Regards Ray 7809 Childrey Manor Aberystwyth 16.07.61 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Yes - there is a a bit of space at the firebox end of the motor and rather than Blue-tac it might be possible to add two strips of lead. As to vacuum pumps you will be aware that Honrby have dispensed with the vacuum piston on their latest offerings - although the cylinder is still moulded to the footplate. It is hardly visible being covered by a length of wire (piping)? The picture below of Bucklebury Grange was previously posted here on RMweb on the Hornby Grange thread. Regards Ray Latest Hornby Granges come without vacuum piston Thanks for that. Great stuff. I did not put myself well in the blutack post. I use blutack as a indication of where weight might go. I put a lump on the top of the motor and replaced the body. On removing it again I found the blutack had squashed to about 6mm. So a lump of lead 5mm thick can go in. I did a similar tryout on the rear of the motor. This led me to copying your Castle set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Not that it affects the thread, but are sure this is a Grange? Looks more like a Manor to me. Boiler way too small for a no 1 and the safety valve is before the first boiler band as a Manor's no 14 boiler. The challenge with the Grange and most other GWR rtr locos is the vacuum pump is attached to the body whilst the actuating piston is attached to the chassis and by having to separate the two there is always the possibility of damage. I remove the pump from the body and fix to an arm which is attached to the cylinder block. This way, when taking the body off, all remains with the chassis. To illustrate, below is one I attached to a Triang Hornby chassis for use under a Wills Saint. The body comes off and the vacuum pump is not disturbed. wills saint 5.jpg Mike Wiltshire OK I dropped one! I meant to post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Great idea Ronnie ....I use blutack as a indication of where weight might go. I put a lump on the top of the motor and replaced the body. On removing it again I found the blutack had squashed to about 6mm. So a lump of lead 5mm thick can go in. I did a similar tryout on the rear of the motor....Excellent - something else to add to me 'to do' list. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob O Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hello Ronnie Good to get a mention. Bucklebury Grange 220gm - as you say. Overton Grange 275gm - so yes I must have 'done' something! thats ok for 308 tons max load fora Grange Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2014 thats ok for 308 tons max load fora Grange Ah but that was going uphill (Sapperton from the Gloucester side I believe) and it was a little less up Dainton - but 420 tons on the flat (on passenger etc trains). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Ah but that was going uphill (Sapperton from the Gloucester side I believe) and it was a little less up Dainton - but 420 tons on the flat (on passenger etc trains). And even less up the Lickey! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Great stuff Ronnie I have put some thoughts and pictures together for the Hornby Grange in a new Post on my Blog. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Great stuff Ronnie I have put some thoughts and pictures together for the Hornby Grange in a new Post on my Blog. Regards Ray I went about ballasting in a similar way (weigh) to Ray. The lead I used was 1.5mm thick so the 1st piece in the firebox top was 17/14x26. on top of this went a second lump 17x30. A recheck with the butack; room for one more! So that's the first 20g. Using the .5 x .9 lead tape from Eileen's Emporium I lined the firebox rear and sides adding another 12g. I (almost) copied Ray in making a "plug" 20 dia x18. This was a lead cylinder capped top and bottom with foreign coins and filled with lead shot. I superglued a tap washer to the leading end and pushed it in stopping just short of the hole for the chimney. I then made 2 half cylinders from 1.5 lead and slid them in to line the boiler. Back to the cab and the under cab fillers exactly as Ray's post plus a new floor/fall plate from 1.5 lead and a curved piece under the cab roof. On the chassis I removed the DCC facility plug and the complex wiring. This gave room for the chassis to fit into the drastically reduced clearance in the boiler. There was room for a small 12g lead piece and I taped the main feed wire to this. I may use this to get a flickering light in the firebox door at a later date, Now I have a loco with a weight of 331g. About 115g heavier than out of the box. A real 5mt! I have run out of crew but will order a few more from Masterpiece. These not only look superb but, being made from pewter, add about 3g per figure. Now for the cosmetics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Thanks Ronnie A real 5mt! I have run out of crew but will order a few more from Masterpiece. I am full of admiration. It is a long time since I purchased anything from Masterpiece - something else to follow up. Many thanks Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 PS Did you mean Masterpiece? I couldn't find a link, perhaps P and D Marsh? Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 PS Did you mean Masterpiece? I couldn't find a link, perhaps P and D Marsh? Regards Ray They have not got a website ,Ray. I guess cottage industry old school? It's Falcon Figures Martin Hill 28 Chiltey Lane Liphook Hampshire GU30 7HJ 01428 727341 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks Ronnie - elsewhere on RMweb there is also an email address: Email : masterpiecefalconfigures@yahoo.co.uk Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Here is my inspiration Ex-GWR 4-6-0 No 6844 'Penhydd Grange' and here is another RonnieS photo from way back. The Fox Name and number plates are superb! I have a Bachmann Hawksworth Tender with no wheels. Romfords do not seem to fit so I need a bit of advice here please guys? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi Ronnie ... so I need a bit of advice here please guys? It might seem a bit obvious but have you contacted the Bachmann Technical Department? There are contact details on the Bachmann Branchline web site. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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